[bksvol-discuss] Re: about braille
- From: "Sharon Jackson" <dolly1025@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:35:03 -0400
I am only going on the basis of their definitions and, to me, they are
different. I am not saying one is better than the other.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guido Corona" <guidoc@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 3:26 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: about braille
> Respectfully Sharon, and of course completely anecdotally and
> subjectively, I beg to disagree.
> For me reading via TTS, and regretably so often -- also listening to
> human speech, recorded or live, are almost purely visual experiences,
> where I 'see' white words flashing in front of me on a very dark
> background.
>
> Studies of the neurological differences between 'reading and listening'
> are very old. I heard about them even when I was a small child, which
> was almost half a century ago. So, I venture to say, they are likely to
> be as obsolete as I am, and by now they have become almost urban legends.
>
> Guido
>
> Aloysius
>
>
>
>
> Guido D. Corona
> IBM Accessibility Center, Austin Tx.
> IBM Research,
> Phone: (512) 838-9735
> Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Visit my weekly Accessibility WebLog at:
> http://www-3.ibm.com/able/weblog/corona_weblog.html
>
>
>
>
>
> "Sharon Jackson" <dolly1025@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 05/17/2004 01:54 PM
> Please respond to
> bksvol-discuss
>
>
> To
> <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> cc
>
> Subject
> [bksvol-discuss] Re: about braille
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I never said that those who can't read the written word are thought of as
> a
> lesser person. I only meant to convey there is a difference between
> reading
> and listening.
>
> Sharon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Guido Corona" <guidoc@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 2:02 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: about braille
>
>
> > If I may once more, ever-so-humbly chime in,
> >
> > I am quietly bemused by the implicit droll suggestions that those of us
> > who have not embraced Braille are 'children of a lesser literacy'.
> > I must have been living for countless years under the now clearly
> > misguided self-delusion that my proficiency in handling the written
> > language was somewhat comparable to that of those members of the blind
> > community who are schooled in the tactile representation of the word.
> > Well, it is now clear that I am instead woefully deficient in that
> > regard, and my TTS-mediated textual cognition mechanism is inherently
> > inferior to the tactile one, because the reflexive conversion I perform
> > from the sounds to the underlying fully expanded words for some
> > unfathomable reason will never match the direct representation of the
> > compressed same, which can be only enjoyed by the
> neurologically-superior
> > tactile gurus.
> >
> > On the other hand, when those anthropocentric views of the 'true
> > believers' are finally mitigated by a modicum of skeptical relativism,
> > when the pitfalls of aprioristic believes are detected, when the urban
> > legends of blind Braille employment rates uniformly peddled by the
> Braille
> > technology industry re recognized to be outdated and tendentious, and
> > those 'superior neurological pathways' are finally relegated to the
> realm
> > of pseudoscientific myths, then I may be eventually readmitted to the
> > world of the 'chosen ones'.
> >
> > Do remember the words of the sage of Appenzell:
> > 'Spoons do not gag people. People using spoons gag people!'
> >
> > Aloysius.
> >
> >
> > Guido D. Corona
> > IBM Accessibility Center, Austin Tx.
> > IBM Research,
> > Phone: (512) 838-9735
> > Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > Visit my weekly Accessibility WebLog at:
> > http://www-3.ibm.com/able/weblog/corona_weblog.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Sharon Jackson" <dolly1025@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent by: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > 05/17/2004 11:21 AM
> > Please respond to
> > bksvol-discuss
> >
> >
> > To
> > <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > cc
> >
> > Subject
> > [bksvol-discuss] Re: about braille
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > I agree. Access to information is crucial to accomplishing college
> > courses.
> > I think students should gain the necessary skills to utilize all forms
> of
> > materials available to them.
> >
> > I do believe that reading is different than listening because one has to
> > know the rules that govern the written language and formulate their own
> > interpretations while listening only deals with the comprehension of the
> > material. Does this mean that individuals who do not read cannot
> succeed
> > in
> > college? I do not believe this is the case as long as they know how to
> > access information.
> >
> > In my graduate courses, we are given the necessary information to assist
> > children/adults in accessing information whether they have to read it
> > themselves or have it read to them.
> >
> > Sharon
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Edwards, Paul" <pedwards@xxxxxxxx>
> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:37 AM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: about braille
> >
> >
> > > The primary issue here is comprehension. I have a huge problem with
> the
> > notion that listening is not reading. It is creating immense problems
> for
> > those people who are blind who do not have access to braille or large
> > print
> > because of their physical condition. I am really bothered by purists
> who
> > are preventing kids who are blind from graduating from high school
> because
> > they cannot "read"
> > >
> > > We have also had immense success by providing access to speech
> > technology
> > for students with certain learning disabilities and also for some
> autistic
> > students. The issue is developing a capacity to acquire and retain
> > information. However that is done seems somewhat irrelevant to me. I
> am
> > an
> > avid braille reader and a good audio reader and, even though I am
> totally
> > blind and have always been so, learning tests say I am a visual learner.
> I
> > have no notion of what that has to do with the price of cheese but pass
> it
> > on for the sake of a grin.
> > >
> > > My point in even raising this question on this list is to suggest
> that
> > far too often, teachers and parents make decisions about how children
> > should
> > learn that have the effect of limiting their progress. I am tired of
> > dealing with students coming into college essentially illiterate,
> > especially
> > when technology can make such a difference. The issue ought to be
> > information acquisition and retention, not "reading".
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul Edwards, Director
> > > Access Services, North Campus
> > > Phone: (305) 237-1146
> > > Fax: (305-237-1831
> > > TTY: (305) 237-1413
> > > Email: pedwards@xxxxxxxx
> > > home email: edwpaul@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sharon Jackson [mailto:dolly1025@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 3:18 PM
> > > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: about braille
> > >
> > >
> > > In my graduate classes, we have debated over the issues of print
> and/or
> > > Braille are forms of reading media, but screen readers and audiotapes
> > are
> > > not. I believe this is true since the screen readers and audiotapes
> > read
> > to
> > > you while the others you read yourself. I guess it would depend on
> the
> > > person and how much information they can retain from any form of
> > information
> > > access. I believe everyone should use what options are available to
> > them,
> > > therefore, students should learn what is available and base their
> > options
> > > according to their preferences and not just what they are shown.
> > >
> > > Sharon
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Kellie Hartmann" <kellhart@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 2:08 PM
> > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: about braille
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Liz,
> > > > Your story about the child using only CCTV is just the kind of thing
> > that
> > > > irritates me so much. That girl will probably get into college and
> > wish
> > > that
> > > > she knew braille, especially if she happens to lose what vision she
> > has.
> > > >
> > > > I really believe that reading braille and reading with audio are two
> > > totally
> > > > different things, just as much as reading print and listening are
> > > different.
> > > > I do enjoy audiobooks, but I process information from them and from
> > > braille
> > > > in very different ways. If there is information that I really need
> to
> > > study
> > > > and remember I do much better if it's in braille. I once had to use
> an
> > > audio
> > > > version of a linguistics text, and although it was beautifully done
> I
> > > found
> > > > myself having to take extensive notes just to keep my mind focused
> > > > sufficiently. If the book had been in braille I would have taken
> very
> > few
> > > > notes, if any. I know that other people don't have this dichotomy
> and
> > can
> > > > absorb audio material as well as they absorb print, but it would be
> > > > impossible to know that with a young child, so they need to be
> taught
> > > both.
> > > > As you say, everyone will eventually make their own choices about
> what
> > > > they've been taught, but the more choices you have the better.
> > > >
> > > > As for spelling, braille can cause its own problems there too. When
> I
> > was
> > > in
> > > > school they made sure that I wrote the answers to my spelling tests
> in
> > > grade
> > > > 1, and later I typed them on a typewriter. That's one thing that
> using
> > a
> > > > computer can help with. I had to laugh the other night when I wanted
> > to
> > > > write in my journal. I've been using so many foreign language
> braille
> > > codes
> > > > as well as doing most of my writing on the computer, and it took me
> a
> > > while
> > > > to remember how to type in grade 2 braille. <lol> I read braille
> every
> > > day,
> > > > but I guess I don't write it very often anymore.
> > > > Kellie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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