I heartily agree.
Although I am new to book share the chapter and page numbers are needed in school books and books for research. Especially if a blind person is attending class with sighted people who have the books in print.
I love book share and think it is the best thing since chocolate. Taking away the stripper would make book share even more wonderful.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Janice Carter" <Janice.C@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 6:48 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Where are those contrarians?
Rui, despite your best efforts, you will always be special to Bookshare.org's ongoing growth and development. (Yes, I met Rui in person on numerous occasions at the NFB 05 Conference.)
We might ask that you give us a little more time to organize all of the great feedback we received at the past few conferences and submit to the larger group for additional comments and suggestions as we plan for the next year of Bookshare.org.
-----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rui Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 3:28 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Where are those contrarians?
I would like to here from people who disagree with me. Let me know why you think the current setup makes sense.
I do not mean for people to play devil's advocate with this. I'm asking if anyone seriously disagrees with the centiments expressed over the last 30 hours.
(There is a method to my madness)
-- Rui (who is probably liked at Benetech right now as much as the plague)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Kent Stein" <dkent5817@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 6:26 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage
Dear Charlyn and Bookshare community,
I think a petition is an excellent idea. Charlyn, would you like toemails toit together? Rui, would you put it on the Bookshare Scans site?
I also think we should select a day to make phone calls and sendthe Bookshare staff calling on them to turn off the stripper. HowaboutweThursday, July 28, one week after this most recent stripper discussion began.
We need to take in the fact that, as Bookshare volunteers and users,themust have direct say on policy issues. Right now this list is virtuallyonly vehicle we have for reaching the staff, and it is clearly ineffective.
canThe stripper issue highlights a need for a more formalized means of communication. Maybe we should develop an advisory committee whichluckybring concerns to the staff and have a real voice in policymaking.
As blind people, most of us have grown up with the sense that we'reaboutto get whatever reading matter is offered to us. We had better be appreciative and not complain. On the title page of every book from the National Library Service we read that the book has been produced for the blind and physically handicapped "with the kind permission of the publisher." That line"the kind permission" says so much! Do sighted people need anyone'skindpermission in order to read? I AM in fact extraordinarily grateful tothevolunteers and others who have spent countless hours putting booksintoBraille and recorded formats for us, and to those who have worked to change copyright laws and make our special-format books possible! Most of us
theirwould not be literate, educated, contributing members of society withouthelp! But I think that our lifelong dependence upon others to provideuswith books, and the constant feeling that we must be grateful and thatweus,can't expect too much, do take a toll.
Bookshare is different. Bookshare is a program which is not only FORwhobut BY us. We, the volunteers, determine what books go into the collection, and we ourselves make them available. We are not "only volunteers"andhave no right to determine policy. We are the backbone of the program - a program which is created to meet our needs and those of other blinddon'tprint-disabled people. The Bookshare staff are not users of Bookshare materials. They do not live with the inaccessibility of print; theyexperience our issues from the inside. It is absolutely essentialthathasthey listen to what we have to say.
Bookshare is an incredible program, and I believe in it utterly. Itonthe potential to narrow the print gap for us as no other program ever has before. But we need to take a stand and insist that it be the quality program we all deserve.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlene" <caota@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 12:11 AM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage
Maybe we could put together a pteition of some sort and put a noticeprogram.the volunteer website as well to see if we could get enough people to sign it to send to bookshare requesting them to stop using thesee
-----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pam Quinn Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:02 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage
We take pride in our submissions and I just don't think a lot of the bookshare staff understands how angry and frustrated we are when wegetthat our submissions have been mangled. And for what? I just don'tnobodyit. Why do they insist on holding on to that useless program thatandwants? Seems to me if anything, dropping it would mean one less stepandless work in putting the books on the site.
I use chapter headings for my breaking points in .mp3 files too, when I'm lucky enough to have them.
It might not be our decision and they might not want to listen to us, but that would be unfortunate, because the volunteers and subscribers have a major role in determining the future of bookshare.
>I have seriously considered not submitting some books I have scanned >just >because I thought they would be of little use after the stripper finished >with them. I put a lot of work in to what I submit and it is really >upsetting to see the final result when my original looked so nice,comethat >is only a volunteer's view. I also am upset by the messes that Iit>accross when I am reading, even for pleasure. I use the chapter headings >as my MP3 creation breaking points, so if they aren't there I have a big >mess! > >I don't really like throwing fits, and I won't on this list becausejustified.>seems to serve little purpose, but the fits are completelywould> >If i submitted a book in DAISY and BRF format instead of in RTFpolitely>the >normal automated processes be skipped? That is the only thing I can think >of to rescue books where the headers, headings, and page numbers are >invaluable. > >Sarah Van Oosterwijck >Assistive Technology Trainer http://home.earthlink.net/~netentity >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Deborah Kent Stein" <dkent5817@xxxxxxx> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:10 PM >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage > > >> >> >> Hear, hear! I agree 200%! >> >> We have been telling the Bookshare staff about our concerns,has
>> but firmly, literally for years. Despite all the talk, nothingWe>> changed. I am beginning to think we need to take stronger action.this
>> ARE volunteers. >> We do not have to contribute the thousands of hours we put intosay>> program. And Bookshare cannot survive without us. Do we need tosomeonewe >> will have to stop scanning and validating until we know thatJimout >> there is really listening to us, and taking action? It should not have >> to >> come down to threats and strikes, but many of us are at our wit's end. >> What >> is it going to take to turn off the stripper and stop mangling the books >> we >> work so hard to make available? >> >> Debbie >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rui" <goldwave@xxxxxxx> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:16 AM >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] stripper and colatteral damage >> >> >>> Good Afternoon: >>> >>> At the bookshare users meeting at NFB, I made it very clear tothink>>> (like >> he didn't know already) the issues with the stripper and why iit>> it should be removed. >>> >>> The whole concept of the stripper bothers me, not just the factof>>> does >> more than it's supposed too. >>> >>> Its very reason for being agrivates me. >>> Regular print books have headers, some have footers, that is partfriendly.
>>> a >> print book. >>> If we want digital copies of print books then, take the good with >>> the >>> bad. >>> Do not sanitize the book to make it more access technologyor
>>> The >> very fact that is accessible already does that. >>> If i don't want to read the headers, i can strip them out myselfmore>>> use >>> my >> own automated tool to do so. >>> However, If by chance I do want them there, I simply do not get >>> that >> option with Bookshare!!! >>> >>> Words do not do justice to how much this issue ticks me off. >>> >>> Bottomline, this process does not serve the community that it was >>> designed >> to assist. >>> -- Rui >>> >>> > >>> > From: Mike Pietruk <pietruk@xxxxxxxxx> >>> > Date: 2005/07/21 Thu AM 11:00:39 EDT >>> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper >>> > >>> > Pam >>> > >>> > agreed! It's inconsistent and unpredictable. And the problems >>> > relative >>> > to it have been discussed repeatedly. >>> > The Powers-that-be are all too aware of the damage the stripper has >> caused >>> > but seem to have shoved it on the back burner probably due tostripper
>>> > pressing issues to deal with. It is a shame that it cannot be >>> > dealt with; but Marissa, prior to her leaving, pretty much >>> > outlined where it stands. So I wouldn't expect much change >>> > regarding the stripper as any change would require some sort of >>> > policy change plus programmer action. Conceptually, the>>> > makes sense; practically, it has been a >> dismal >>> > failure breading as much (or perhaps even more) than it has >>> > repaired. It's not our decision as we are volunteers, not >>> > decision-makers. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/52 - Release Date: 7/19/2005 >> >> >