[bksvol-discuss] Re: What several gramatical publications say about the ellipsis.

  • From: "Jill O'Connell" <jillocon@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:54:22 -0800

Cindy, My screen reader presently says dot, dot, dot regardless of whether there are spaces or not. It's only by using my braille display that I know whether or not there are spaces. If there aren't, I see periods; if there are I see an elipsis. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Rosenthal" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>

To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:09 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several gramatical publications say about the ellipsis.


After reading all the posts I decided to read what
Mayrie wrote, which I had skipped because I understood
ellipses.

Basically, the irst sources she quotes have to do with
the uses of ellipses rather than how they are written.
I have never seen them in a print book without spaces
between them, except, of course, that when they follow
the end of a sentence the period at the end of the
sentence is a period and so no space would precede it.
Bringhurst's book is written for typographer--people
who set type for printing books and newspapers, though
less and less of that is being done these days. She
doesn't note, nor did I look up, when that was
written.

But for purposes of our Braille readers, it seems that
no spaces between the dots is preferable, and so I've
been deleting them when validating, i.e., now that the
new site is coming online, proofreading. I don't know
what daisy readers hear--do the voices say ellipses or
do they say dot space dot space dot space. If the
latter, I suppose it would be preferable to her dot
dot dot.smile (Am I write that Daisy is audio?)

Cindy


--- Julia <julia.kulak@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Oh, ok, that's good to know.
Thanks. Write to me off list when you get a chance.
Julia
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several
gramatical publications say about
the ellipsis.


> Hi Julia,
>
> The upshot is that depending upon who you ask, the
ellipsis is
> supposed to be represented either with or without
spaces separating the
> dots.  So, whichever way people choose to do it,
they're correct as far as
> visual representation is concerned.  At least,
that's what I understood.
>
> Mayrie
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Julia
> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:22 PM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several
gramatical publications say
> about
> the ellipsis.
>
> Wow, this is very complicated, and if I may say
so, quite technical and
> confusing. Maybe if I knew unicode it would make
more sense.
> Julia
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:30 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] What several gramatical
publications say about
> the
>
> ellipsis.
>
>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> Oh, boy!  The ellipsis gets complicated if you
look into it. Here
>> are some statements that I found about its usage
and how it can and
>> should
>> be typed.
>>
>> Have fun!
>>
>> See below.
>>
>> Mayrie
>>
>> In English
>>
>> The style and use varies in the English language.
>> The Chicago Manual of Style
>> suggests the use of an ellipsis for any omitted
word, phrase, line, or
>> paragraph from within a quoted passage. There are
two commonly used
>> methods
>> of using
>> ellipses: one uses three dots for any omission,
while the second makes a
>> distinction between omissions within a sentence
(using three dots: .?.?.)
>> and
>> omissions between sentences (using a period and a
space followed by three
>> dots: . .?.?.). An ellipsis at the end of a
sentence with no sentence
>> following
>> should be followed by a period (for a total of
four dots). The
>> Modern Language Association
>> (MLA) however, used to indicate that an ellipsis
must include spaces
>> before
>> and after each dot in all uses. If an ellipsis is
meant to represent an
>> omission,
>>
>> square brackets
>> must surround the ellipsis to make it clear that
there was no pause in
>> the
>> original quote: [ .?.?. ]. Currently, the MLA has
removed the requirement
>> of
>> brackets in their style handbooks. However, the
use of brackets is still
>> correct as it clears confusion.
>> [1]
>>
>> According to Robert Bringhurst's
>> Elements of Typographic Style
>> , the details of typesetting ellipses depend on
the character and size of
>> the font being set and the typographer's
preference. Bringhurst writes
>> that
>> a
>> full space between each dot is "another Victorian
eccentricity. In most
>> contexts, the Chicago ellipsis is much too wide"
? he recommends using
>> flush
>> dots,
>> or
>> thin-spaced
>> dots (up to one-fifth of an
>> em
>> ), or the prefabricated ellipsis character (
>> Unicode
>> U+2026,
>> Latin entity
>> &hellip;). Bringhurst suggests that normally an
ellipsis should be spaced
>> fore-and-aft to separate it from the text, but
when it combines with
>> other
>> punctuation,
>> the leading space disappears and the other
punctuation follows. He
>> provides
>> the following examples:
>>
>> i?? j
>> k?.
>> l?, l
>> l,?? l
>> m??
>> n?..!
>>
>> In legal writing in the United States, Rule 5.3
in the
>> Bluebook
>> citation guide governs the use of ellipses and
requires a space before
>> the
>> first dot and between the two subsequent dots. If
an ellipsis ends the
>> sentence,
>> then there are three dots, each separated by a
space, followed by the
>> final
>> punctuation.
>>
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>
> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email
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