I concur with Elizabeth. Which is why I say again, when mentioning that a particular book has been messed up, please specify the title. Just saying you saw a book with bad page breaks, for example, doesn't help anyone track down the problem. Tracy At 08:15 AM 10/6/05 -0400, you wrote: >Then we need to get the submitter and validator to speak to each other so >some books at least can be tracked. The two of them can find out what >software and conditions existed at all stages of the document's life. We >can learn how to get this to work if we analyze specific cases. > >E. > > >At 08:12 AM 10/6/2005, you wrote: > >>Tracy >> >>I am sure that you have improved the quality of many books -- that was not >>my point. >>Rather, and I speak from observation, I am suggesting that it is possible >>that a validator can hurt and not assist the quality of a book in some >>instances. >>There is more to a book than every word perfect. There are things such as >>pagination being messed up by a word processor perhaps not formatted to >>handle the way the book is, >>an overzealous individual stripping page numbers or protection thereof, >>and all the rest. >>Yes, the BookShare stripper is overzealous also, as is any automated tool; >>but the truth is that we, as validators, too can cause problems >>(unintentionally, of course) >>as can other individuals in the whole process. >>I am a validator too so, in my comments, I am criticizing myself as much >>as anyone. >>And as this is a continual learning process, I am merely suggesting that >>we can learn from what happens to books and should occasionally study our >>work, as it appears in the collection, to see if it comes >>out in the form we expected. >>Usually, all is fine; but there are the occasions when the end result is >>more than disappointing. >> >>My second point, Tracy, is that a lot of books need little or no work as >>the submitter has gone through great pains in preparation. >>Respect that, I say, and treat those as straightforward validations noting >>any comments left as what may need to be done. >>Many submitters too take great pride in their work and feel let down when >>that >>book they spent extra hours to get it just right has it run through a word >>processing program that reformats every page so that the original benefits >>are negated. >> >> >>why, when I scan, should I spend many extra hours getting things "right" >>(as I see it) if, in the end, it is for naught! >>And I have had other submitters privately lament what has happened to >>their work -- and it goes beyond the stripper -- as an apparent result of >>something going amiss (possibly even unknown to the validator) >>as part of the process. >> >>If my work as a careful submitter means nothing, perhaps I should begin >>submitting raw scans of books done in an hour rather than spending days >>getting it ready! >> >>I am criticizing no one in particular! My msg is mainly directed at new >>validators to be careful in what they are doing as they can possibly do >>harm as well as much good -- and likely they will do more of the latter >>and none of the former. >>Also, if you feel offended as a validator, how do you believe submitters >>who get sniped at on this list, if they learn of it directly or >>indirectly, react. >>They probably feel unappreciated too. >> >>My comments are meant as general constructive ones much as and in the same >>spirit as Elizabeth has recently offered hers. >>She has given me plenty of food for thought, and that is what we all need >>as we try to improve both the art of submitting or validating. >> >>And if I haven't publicly already said this, Thanks, Elizabeth, for >>addressing the issues have. Most of the time I agree with you, sometimes >>I don't; but I always appreciate your directness and candor and honesty >>and know you don't offer them with negativity but in the hopeful spirit >>that we can learn and improve. >>And what I offer is in the same vein. >> >> Mike >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list >>of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.