[bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip

  • From: "Deborah Kent Stein" <dkent5817@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 15:21:16 -0500


Janice Carter has told me that she is available via phone to answer
questions and respond to comments from Bookshare volunteers.  She has posted
her number to the list: 650-759-5828.  I think it is very important for us
to express our concerns and share our ideas with the Bookshare staff, and
perhaps talking with Janice directly is an effective way for us to have
input.

Debbie


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth A. Cross" <crossk@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 4:39 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip


> Well, I think I have been supportive of BookShare.  I have on their system
> almost fifteen hundred contributed books.  But the comments I make on this
> list are not responded to by the BookShare staff, and I don't see
responses
> to others, either, when most questions are posed.  I have to say that,
from
> what I have seen and heard, volunteers are much more supportive of
BookShare
> than Bookshare is supportive of them.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gerald Hovas" <geraldhovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 5:45 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
>
>
> > Mike,
> >
> > Why should Bookshare be willing to "lobby Kurzweil and all the rest" if
> > volunteers aren't willing to lobby them as well?
> >
> > Also, Just because you don't see any legal issues related to your
proposed
> > changes doesn't mean that none exist, nor does it mean that there aren't
> > technical issues or financial constraints which could prevent those
> proposed
> > changes from being implemented if they do happen to be legal.
> >
> > Even if there are no legal, technical, or financial issues related to
your
> > proposed changes, why should Bookshare wish to implement them for
someone
> > who constantly makes it known that they do not appreciate their service?
> > Keep in mind that even the squeakiest wheel can be ignored when it
> > continuously squeaks.
> >
> > BTW, what happened to
> >
> > "Yet, we, as users of these books, were very appreciative, grateful and
> > thankful to have them and didn't publicly grumble about their
> > shortcomings."
> >
> > "Bookshare, in many ways, is a very similar operation albeit utilizing
> > technology of the next generation.
> > Perhaps we've forgotten the essence of Bookshare philosophy --
> > making reading material available -- and are too much focusing on
> > technical issues which end up frustrating many of us even more and, at
> > least in my mind, am greatly taking away the enjoyment of making books
> > available to others."
> >
> > Gerald
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
> > Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 7:05 AM
> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
> >
> >
> > Kenneth
> >
> > I couldn't say it any better!  BookShare, if it is to survive in the
> > long-term, has to make book submitting and the end product for its
> > users straightforward, simple and what people want and need.
> > If it cannot, submitters will not submit, customers may pay once and not
> > renew due to dissatisfaction, and financial contributors will see what
> > they don't want to see and either stop supporting or not be interested
in
> > supporting.
> > It's up to Bookshare/Benetech to do the lobbying with Kurzweil and all
the
> > rest and not for us volunteers.
> >
> > My first interest in volunteering for
> > Bookshare was to bring about more availability of Christian-related
> > non-fiction and fiction books.  Hence, if time and technology show that
> > there is a better avenue for this for whatever reason, I, and likely
> > others, will turn our support and energy to that entity.
> > Bookshare, like any first attempt at something, provides a learning
curve
> > for others watching and considering such enterprises.
> > Clearly, BookShare's most significant problem is its shoestring
operation
> > which doesn't allow it the ability to make necessary improvements,
closely
> > work with volunteers, work with 3rd parties to improve auxiliary
products,
> > provide volunteers with tools, and all the rest.
> > The shame is that we will likely never know what a financially
overflowing
> > Bookshare could do as that would mean more paid employees doing work, an
> > online system which would evolve into robustness, and all the rest.
> >
> > The real hope is that, over time, there will be no need for a Bookshare
> > because
> > publishers will be able to deliver electronic texts along aside their
> > printed books simultaneouslly in a form blind users can handle
> > conveniently.
> > Then, at some point, a generation or 2 down the line, NLS, RFB&D,
services
> > such as Bookshare may become dinosaurs or, if they exist, be radically
> > different from what they are today.
> >
> > It's often hard to see those changes when we're in the midst of them.
But
> > think, for example, how much use blind patrons can now actually make of
> > their public library.  Regular books can be borrowed for scanning, audio
> > book collections are growing, and, with devices such as Freedom Box, a
> > patron can bring this with them to use the library's publicly available
> > computers.
> > And thanks to the library catalogs more and more being online, blind as
> > well as sighted customers can do their searching from home.
> >
> > 30 years ago, much of this would have been viewed as fanciful science
> > fiction and beyond practical reality.  Well, it is more and more here;
and
> > it wouldn't surprise me that a file sharing system such as BookShare
will
> > evolve into or be replaced by something far more efficient in the coming
> > decades.
> > We don't know what that will exactly be, but the march of technology and
> > human ingenuity and entrepreneurship will take the current learning
> > experiences and build or remold a better mousetrap, so to speak.
> >
> >
> >
> > Returning this to the original subject, it's not just having page
numbers
> > that is important, it is having the right ones and being able to verify
> > them by viewing from the text rather than synthesized by an automated
tool
> > which already is viewed as being significantly flawed by many.
> >
> > The first step in this process would be including, in the file bundle of
> > Daisy, the book as validated prior to in-house massaging.
> > Perhaps even more, adding another file which was the original submission
> > itself.
> >
> > I don't see any legal issues here as accessing those files would require
a
> > password much as getting the .opf and .htm files that are already part
of
> > the package.
> >
> >
> >
> >  On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, Kenneth A. Cross wrote:
> >
> > > The translation is that, since BookShare will listen to no one, we
> should
> > > take our problems to others.  I have all the devices you mentioned,
but
> I
> > > just can't find the plethora of page numbers you find.  I guess I
don't
> > read
> > > such advanced books.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Gerald Hovas" <geraldhovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 4:52 PM
> > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
> > >
> > >
> > > > Kenneth,
> > > >
> > > > I don't know if we have many options at this time.  I would expect
> Peter
> > > to
> > > > be better informed than I am, though, so maybe he can answer your
> > > question.
> > > >
> > > > The only two DAISY readers that I know of other than K-1000 and
> OpenBook
> > > are
> > > > Victor Reader Soft and FS Reader.  Personally, I don't like using
> Victor
> > > > Reader Soft, but I have seen it display page numbers, and it can be
> > > > downloaded from Bookshare.  I've never tried FS Reader, so I don't
> know
> > > how
> > > > Freedom Scientific handles page numbers.
> > > >
> > > > Personally, I prefer to forgo DAISY at this time in favor of the
HTML
> > file
> > > > that can be unpacked with the DAISY files.  Since that file is
merely
> an
> > > > HTML file, it can be read using Internet Explorer and JAWS.  I like
> > being
> > > > able to skim passages in books that I've already read using JAWS to
> fast
> > > > forward to the next paragraph.  The other nice thing about it is
that
> > I've
> > > > never seen a book which doesn't have page numbers throughout the
text.
> > > > Occasionally I see two sets of page numbers, though.  My guess is
that
> > > this
> > > > is caused by the Stripper not being able to recognize page numbers,
so
> > it
> > > > assigns page numbers based on a page's location in a file, which, as
> we
> > > all
> > > > know, may not synch with the page numbers in the book since many
books
> > > begin
> > > > numbering the pages with the first page of the prologue or chapter
1.
> > > >
> > > > If many of you are using K-1000 to read the DAISY files as I
suspect,
> > and
> > > > you aren't able to see page numbers throughout the text as you would
> > like,
> > > > then I'd suggest making your wish known to Kurzweil.
> > > >
> > > > Gerald
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Kenneth A.
> > > > Cross
> > > > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 2:02 PM
> > > > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have asked before, and will use this communication to ask again,
> just
> > > what
> > > > do I buy to read these daisy files with the page numbers and all.
As
> > soon
> > > > as I get an answer, I will buy whatever brand is recommended to me
and
> > > will
> > > > report on my joy at getting all these correct page numbers.
Somebody
> > tell
> > > > me what to buy.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 1:29 PM
> > > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Jana,
> > > > > Sorry to hear you're an evacuee.  But what dedication, to bring
your
> > > > > Bookshare stuff with you!
> > > > >
> > > > > You seem to be saying that you are protecting page numbers with
> stars.
> > > > You
> > > > > should not.  The stripper needs the page numbers to be
recognizable
> so
> > > it
> > > > > can put them in the file for Daisy readers (us non-Daisy users are
> > just
> > > > out
> > > > > in the cold.)  As I understand it, the page number must be on the
> > first,
> > > > or
> > > > > last, line of a page, with a blank line below it, or above it, if
> it's
> > > on
> > > > > the bottom.  Then, the stripper is supposed to recognize it and,
> yes,
> > > > strip
> > > > > it, putting it into some place for Daisy to see.
> > > > >
> > > > > What I do with headers, as a validator, is cut out the text
portion,
> > and
> > > > > leave the page number, then make sure the number is at the top,
with
> a
> > > > blank
> > > > > line under it, or at the bottom, with a blank line before it.
Clear
> > as
> > > > Mud?
> > > > >
> > > > > What you did with chapter headings sounds fine.
> > > > > Tracy
> > > > >
> > > > > At 11:18 PM 10/6/05 -0500, you wrote:
> > > > > >Hi, all!  Okay, so life as an evacuee is getting a bit boring,
and
> I
> > > > > thought I'd have a little fun with the subject line. <Smile>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I'm about to submit a book which I've been working on for a
while.
> I
> > > > have
> > > > > left the headings in the book for now, and I've protected the
> chapter
> > > > > headings and page numbers with asterisks.  The chapter headings
have
> > > > > asterisks on the very top line of the page, followed by a blank
> line.
> > > The
> > > > > page numbers, which are at the bottom of the page, are followed by
a
> > > blank
> > > > > line and then about five asterisks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >My question is actually twofold, I guess.  Will this be enough to
> > keep
> > > > the
> > > > > stripper from going too far?  If so, should I go ahead and strip
the
> > > > > headers, replacing them with asterisks?  I know we've about
> discussed
> > > this
> > > > > one to death, but since I don't have all of the BookShare posts on
> my
> > > > > laptop, and since I've had just a few things on my mind other than
> > > > Bookshare
> > > > > for the past week and a half, I thought I'd see if someone could
> > refresh
> > > > my
> > > > > memory.  Thanks!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Jana
> > > > > >
> > > > >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > >Jana Jackson
> > > > > >Director Of Training
> > > > > >Indigo Logix, LLC
> > > > > >Direct: (615)661-5254
> > > > > >E-mail: jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >Web Site: http://www.indigo-logix.com
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > >For information about Jana's music ministry, visit her web site
at
> > > > > >http://www.janajackson.com/.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
> > > > > ____________________________________________
> > > > > >Need to plan a vacation or business trip?  Jana's new on-line
> travel
> > > > > agency, JJM Travel, offers some of the best deals on the Internet
> for
> > > > > airfares, hotels, last-minute getaways, and more!  For all of your
> > > travel
> > > > > needs, visit http://1793084.prttravel.com.  To log in, type the ID
> > > number
> > > > > 1793084.  To learn how you too can save up to 90% on all of your
> > travel,
> > > > > visit http://jjm.gttrends.net.  Jana is happy to answer any
> questions
> > > you
> > > > > might have concerning this exciting opportunity to work and have
fun
> > at
> > > > the
> > > > > same time.  If you have questions, feel free to e-mail her at
> > > > > jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> > > > > ><HTML><HEAD>
> > > > > ><META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html;
> > charset=iso-8859-1">
> > > > > ><META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604" name=GENERATOR>
> > > > > ><STYLE></STYLE>
> > > > > ></HEAD>
> > > > > ><BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
> > > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi, all!&nbsp; Okay, so life as an
> > evacuee
> > > > is
> > > > > >getting a bit boring, and I thought I'd have a little fun with
the
> > > > subject
> > > > > line.
> > > > > >&lt;Smile&gt;</FONT></DIV>
> > > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> > > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm about to submit a book which
I've
> > been
> > > > > working
> > > > > >on for a while.&nbsp; I have left the headings in the book for
now,
> > and
> > > > I've
> > > > > >protected the chapter headings and page numbers with
> asterisks.&nbsp;
> > > The
> > > > > >chapter headings have asterisks on the very top line of the page,
> > > > followed
> > > > > by a
> > > > > >blank line.&nbsp; The page numbers, which are at the bottom of
the
> > > page,
> > > > are
> > > > > >followed by a blank line and then about five asterisks.&nbsp;
> > > > </FONT></DIV>
> > > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> > > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My question is actually twofold, I
> > > > guess.&nbsp;
> > > > > >Will this be enough to keep the stripper from going too
far?&nbsp;
> If
> > > so,
> > > > > should
> > > > > >I go ahead and strip the headers, replacing them with
> > asterisks?&nbsp;
> > > I
> > > > know
> > > > > >we've about discussed this one to death, but since I don't have
all
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > >BookShare posts on my laptop, and since I've had just a few
things
> on
> > > my
> > > > mind
> > > > > >other than Bookshare for the past week and a half, I thought I'd
> see
> > if
> > > > > someone
> > > > > >could refresh my memory.&nbsp; Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
> > > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> > > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jana</FONT></DIV>
> > > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> > > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>size=2>-------------------------------------------------------------------<
> > > > > BR>Jana
> > > > > >Jackson<BR>Director Of Training<BR>Indigo Logix, LLC<BR>Direct:
> > > > > >(615)661-5254<BR>E-mail: <A
> > > > >
> >href="mailto:jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A><BR>Web
> > > > Site: <A
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>href="http://www.indigo-logix.com";>http://www.indigo-logix.com</A></FONT></
> > > > DIV>
> > > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> > > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > ---<BR>For
> > > > > >information about Jana's music ministry, visit her web site
> at<BR><A
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>href="http://www.janajackson.com/";>http://www.janajackson.com/</A>.</FONT><
> > > > > /DIV>
> > > > > ><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> > > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>size=2>____________________________________________________________________
> > > > > ___________________________________________________<BR>Need
> > > > > >to plan a vacation or business trip?&nbsp; Jana's new on-line
> travel
> > > > > agency, JJM
> > > > > >Travel, offers some of the best deals on the Internet for
airfares,
> > > > hotels,
> > > > > >last-minute getaways, and more!&nbsp; For all of your travel
needs,
> > > visit
> > > > <A
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>href="http://1793084.prttravel.com";>http://1793084.prttravel.com</A>.&nbsp;
> > > > To
> > > > > >log in, type the ID number 1793084.&nbsp; To learn how you too
can
> > save
> > > > up to
> > > > > >90% on all of your travel, visit <A
> > > > > >href="http://jjm.gttrends.net";>http://jjm.gttrends.net</A>.&nbsp;
> > Jana
> > > is
> > > > > happy
> > > > > >to answer any questions you might have concerning this exciting
> > > > opportunity to
> > > > > >work and have fun at the same time.&nbsp; If you have questions,
> feel
> > > > free to
> > > > > >e-mail her at <A
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>href="mailto:jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>.<BR></FONT></DI
> > > > > V></BODY></HTML>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >  To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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> > > > > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line.  To get
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> > >
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