[bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents

So would it be forward ... 9? I am trying this in system access instead of jaws just for fun. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debby Franson" <the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxx>

To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 10:21 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents


Hi Robert!

On this line of the table of contents:

Foreword .................................. 9

OpenBook 7 reads it as:

Foreward, (very quietly reads) 34 periods, 9

So that's not the best, so I can understand why we are talking about using an elipsis.

Debby

At 09:33 AM 11/5/2009, robert tweedy wrote
I have jaws set to ignore periods but the question would be how does it sound in a daisy device or with open book or kurzweil? What ever the decision is I will go with. How about spaces between the names of chapters and page numbers or would that be confusing to a blind person reading with speech?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori" <lori@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:03 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents


Then if we are using replace tabs then we do that first and then go back and put in the dots by hand?

Lori M

----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Castner" <loralee.castner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:42 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents


If this group is making a decision or referring a suggestion to the VAT, then I agree with three dots.

Lori C.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn I" <lynnskyi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 6:05 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents


My vote is that we use three dots.

Chapter 1 ... 1

It's simple, short, and easy to insert. *smile*

Blessings.

Lynnsky

----- Original Message ----- From: "EVAN REESE" <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 12:32 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents


From a braille reader's perspective, this doesn't look good, especially
because people use braille displays of different lengths.
Some will have to scroll down one line, or maybe even two, just to get past all those dots. I counted 34 in the first item alone, and 28 in the second
item. That seems like it would be a bit of a pain for braille readers.

I think three dots is plenty.

Evan

----- Original Message ----- From: "Debby Franson" <the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:03 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents


Hi everyone!

Here is a table of contents with the dot leaders as I found it. I didn't
insert anything.

How does it look for you sighted readers?

How does it come out on a braille display?

How does it sound to those who use screen readers?

Window-Eyes, at least the way I have it set  totally ignores these dot
leaders.  If I add periods like this on a line:

......
 Window-Eyes also ignores them.

Here's the table of contents.

Contents

Foreword .................................. 9
1 Intercession
A Way of Life ............................ 13
2 Compassion in Action
The Functions of Intercession ............... 26
3 Intensity in Vision
The Priorities of Intercession ................ 44
4 Ordered Warfare
Establishing Battle Strategies for
Intercession .............................. 60
5 Authoritative Intercession
Keys to "Fasting" Down Strongholds ........ 76
6 Praying for the Lost
(A Week of Intercession)
Monday: Six Interrogatives of Intercession .... 89


8

7 Praying for Authorities
Tuesday: Invading Areas of Influence ........ 96
8 Praying for Nations
Wednesday: Confronting Enemy
Strongholds ............................. 105
9 Praying for Laborers
Thursday: Co-Workers in the Conflict ....... 114
10 Praying for the Church
Friday: Contending for Spiritual
Awakening ............................. 12
11 Praying for the Sick and Afflicted
Saturday: Biblical Factors for Physical
Restoration ............................. 131
12 Praying for the Family
Sunday: Prayer Patterns for Healthy
Homes ................................. 143
13 Soul Conflict
Taking Authority Against Spiritual
Darkness ............................... 156
14 Prayer Travelers
Mobilizing a Movement of World Prayer Missionaries
............................ 175

Debby

At 04:26 PM 11/4/2009, Mayrie ReNae wrote
Hi Judy and Valerie,

Inserting an elipsis between items in a table of contents and
their
respective page numbers will work. Any more dots than that would be a potential nightmare for those reading with speech. Because in the dot leader format the screen readers might well read "dot dot dot dot dot"
etc
depending upon the amount of punctuation each user has spoken. So, if an elipsis would work for sighted readers better than just a space, I'm happy
to begin inserting an elipsis instead.

Thanks, Valerie, for telling us how we can make things at least a little
more usable for some folks.

Mayrie



-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Judy s.
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:42 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents

I agree with Valerie. It is a torture to figure out tables of contents visually with just the single space. I'm perfectly happy with an ellipsis
instead of the space, as an idea.  I can't see any way that trying to
figuour out how many periods to put in to make the right margin on each line, as is done with a printed book, will make sense or be anything but a nightmare to do if you're blind. Having an ellipsis in makes it perfectly
readable for me visually.

Golly, I hope I'm making sense. I had some major dental surgery today and
we
had to use enough anesthesia to bring an elephant down.  So I'm a bit
loopy!
grin.

Judy s.

Valerie Maples wrote:
> Ideally you should have enough periods so the right margin is
even > for
> visual scanning of page numbers as a list, but an ellipsis would > be
> better than a single space.  that is outright torture to find >
anything.
>
> Valerie
>
>
> On 11 04, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Mayrie ReNae wrote:
>
>> Hi Debby,
>>
>> I'd like more commentary from our sighted print disabled readers >> to
>> know whether this will be helpful before I change my
practises. >> I'm
>> happy to change, as you are, but not willing to make a permanent
>> change until or unless it is commented upon by more than one >>
person.
>>
>> Vallerie, Doug, Judy, anyone else who is print disabled, but >>
sighted
>> want to comment on this?
>>
>> Mayrie
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Debby
>> Franson
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 8:58 AM
>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
>>
>> Hi Mayrie!
>>
>> Should I insert elipses in the table of contents in "Rebel With a
>> Cause"?
>> It wouldn't be a bother.
>>
>> Debby
>>
>> At 07:50 AM 11/3/2009, Mayrie ReNae wrote
>>> Hi Melissa,
>>>
>>> That's a great idea!  Let's see if it would work for folks like
>>> Valerie's Nichole, since Valerie was the one requesting a >>> change.
>>> If it would work, I don't see how it would go against anything
>>> bookshare has
>> ever said.
>>>
>>> Mayrie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of >>> Melissa
>>> Smith
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 5:07 AM
>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Table Of Contents
>>>
>>> I've been thinking about Valerye's concerns about the table of
>>> contents.
>>> I got to thinking about how Braille books have a series of dots
>>> between the chapter title and page number. So, I was wondering >>> if
>>> inserting an ellipses between the chapter title and page number
>>> would be an appropriate
>> solution.
>>> An ellipses will be recognized and kept by bookshare's tools, >>> and
>>> will give some separation between chapter title and page
number >>> for
>>> those that need that. It wouldn't be spoken by most screen >>>
readers,
>>> so wouldn't interfere with anybody's listening pleasure.
>>> Finally, since Braille readers are used to the series of dots
>>> between chapter title and page number, it wouldn't seem unusual >>> to
>>> them
either.
>>> So, do you think this would be acceptable and not violate any
>>> bookshare rules?
>>>
>>> Melissa
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Enjoy what you have rather than desiring what you don't have. >> Just
>> dreaming about nice things is meaningless; it is like chasing the
>> wind.--Ecclesiastes
>> 6:9 NLT
>>
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dreaming about nice things is meaningless; it is like chasing the
wind.--Ecclesiastes 6:9 NLT

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