[bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents

No, the space before and after is not necessary--at least for my Pac Mate to translate the ellipsis properly--it's just that the periods need to be without spaces between them to appear correctly. However, the braille convention in the NLS books I've read is to put a space before and after the ellipsis. I'm not sure why, but that's the way I always read them. It may be that it is done to avoid any possible confusion with other dots that indicate apostrophes or double caps or something; but I'm just shooting in the dark on this one. The NLS convention for ellipses at the ends of sentences is consistent: The regular period--dots 2-5-6 is used, then a space, then the three dot 3's together without spaces.
As far as print books go, I've seen them both ways with my Optacon. Usually, if the ellipsis is at the end of a sentence, I will see a period without a space before it at the end of a sentence followed by three more periods without spaces. But in the middle of a sentence, I usually see them surrounded by spaces. (I should mention that my scanning software--K1000--often does not give the ellipsis consistently, even in the same book. Sometimes it will appear with spaces, then maybe a few lines further down, it will show no spaces.) I always follow the format of showing them without spaces between the periods and spaces around them in the books I scan and proofread for Bookshare because, since it varies for print books, it seems as though it shouldn't matter very much to most sighted readers, and they look more natural in braille when written that way, so it just seems most convenient to just follow that. The only difference is that I have not been putting the space after the period at the end of a sentence. On my Pac Mate at least, it seems to work just fine; I get four dot 3's at the end of a sentence, which replicates what appears in the original print book as far as I can tell.
After just checking a book I proofread, it turns out that the Bookshare translator doesn't follow the same convention as NLS books. At the end of a sentence if the four periods are together, it puts the three dot 3's together, then the regular period, dots 2-5-6, immediately after that. I think, given that when the ellipsis appears with other punctuation in print books, such as a question mark, that our braille translator may have the right of it. In any case, I think I'll just continue to follow the same format of putting the four periods together. It looks fine in the brf file when it's done that way. 

Evan
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn I" <lynnskyi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 12:01 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents



Hi Mayrie, or anyone who knows more than I do!
Isn't the space before and after the ellipsis necessary for the Braille file 
to translate properly?

I certainly thought so. Just wondering. *smile*

Blessings.

Lynnsky
----- Original Message ----- From: "Debby Franson" <the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 10:57 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents


Hi Mayrie!

Should I insert elipses in the table of contents in "Rebel With a
Cause"?  It wouldn't be a bother.

Debby

At 07:50 AM 11/3/2009, Mayrie ReNae wrote

Hi Melissa,

That's a great idea!  Let's see if it would work for folks like Valerie's
Nichole, since Valerie was the one requesting a change.  If it would work,
I
don't see how it would go against anything bookshare has ever said.

Mayrie



-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Melissa Smith
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 5:07 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Table Of Contents

I've been thinking about Valerye's concerns about the table of contents.
I got to thinking about how Braille books have a series of dots between the chapter title and page number. So, I was wondering if inserting an ellipses between the chapter title and page number would be an appropriate solution. An ellipses will be recognized and kept by bookshare's tools, and will give 
some separation between chapter title and page number for those that need
that. It wouldn't be spoken by most screen readers, so wouldn't interfere
with anybody's listening pleasure.
Finally, since Braille readers are used to the series of dots between
chapter title and page number, it wouldn't seem unusual to them either.
So, do you think this would be acceptable and not violate any bookshare
rules?

Melissa


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