[bksvol-discuss] Re: Replacing the stupid ellipses character with three periods.
- From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 10:42:29 -0700
Hi Sue,
Oh, man. I'm totally confused now. First thing I noticed in your e-mail,
if you've routed your jaws cursor to the delete button, you need to hit the
left mouse button to activate the button. I don't know that pressing enter
will do it.
Second, as to the way the ellipsis is perceived using a braille display, I
don't know more than I've said. Just that if it's formatted correctly, it
takes several presses of an arrow key to get from a space before an ellipsis
to the space following it.
I'm about to be out for a few hours, so won't be here for the rest of the
afternoon.
If what I've just said didn't help, let's keep trying to communicate and fix
this. And we can do it off list, as it seems no one else using a braille
display is worrying about this. Not saying you are being too verbose, just
saying that you and I can be verbose together without making other people
read our chat off list.
Let me know what happens. We WILL fix this!
Mayrie
_____
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:20 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Replacing the stupid ellipses character with
three periods.
Y
Yes, I did find the delete button and pressed enter on it, and then went to
OK. But it still seemed like my arrow key skipped a space. I mean, I put it
to the right of the elipsis and it went to the first space on the lelft, so
it skipped over two spaces. So I take it that isn't right. The trouble is
that you do move the cursor after highlighting it, so you can find the
delete button. So I must not be doing it exactly right. I did look at the
instructions.
Sue
From: Mayrie ReNae <mailto:mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:44 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Replacing the stupid ellipses character with
three periods.
Hi Sue,
What you typed here is what you want. But, if you didn't type it in word
and then copy , and then paste here, this is not a guarantee that you're
fixed.
You couldn't find the delete button using your Jaws cursor in the dialogue?
That is really what you want. Should I send the modified instructions for
you again for making the fix? My fix did stick this time, so I know the
instructions Jon created last night work.
Mayrie
_____
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 8:00 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Replacing the stupid ellipses character with
three periods.
Yes, you got it and I found it, but the delete didn't work. My arrow key
still lands on the third period. Let me type one so you can check it. Here
goes:
...
Thanks,
Sue
From: Mayrie ReNae <mailto:mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 8:59 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Replacing the stupid ellipses character with
three periods.
Hi Sue!
Oh, I think I get you now! You want to know what that ellipsis string looks
like when you're in the list of choices in the AutoFormat dialogue? Is that
right? If it is, you're looking for something that in braille looks like
three question marks (braille question marks) without spaces between them!
Is that what you mean?
I hope so!
If not, just keep asking, we'll get you what you need to know!
You are so so determined! I totally admire that in you!
Mayrie
_____
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 6:54 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Replacing the stupid ellipses character with
three periods.
Hi Mayrie,
Oh!!!@ I finally get it! When I press an arrow key, by cursor bypasses one
and two and lands on three. But my problem with that fix is that I am
unable to find what you people are calling the elipsis string. What does it
look like? Would it have some extra symbols or letters in it? I need to
know how it looks in Braille.
Thanks,
Sue
From: Mayrie ReNae <mailto:mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 8:30 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Replacing the stupid ellipses character with
three periods.
Hi Sue,
Yes, you are correct, Jaws translates both renditions of the ellipsis
exactly the same and using braille, you see the same thing. That's why I
suggested using your arrow keys to verify which thing you're seeing, because
the evil single-character ellipsis, which we don't want, only takes one
press of the left or right arrow to pass beyond, but three periods typed
take three presses of the arrow key to pass through.
Am I still botching what you want to know? If I am, just keep asking and
I'll some day understand what you mean.
As long as we don't give up, we'll get this figured out.
And, if you can't find the delete button when trying to follow Judy's
instructions, try the instructions I attached to the note I sent last night.
They tell you (accurately this time) how to achieve what Judy's instructions
tell you to do using both the Jaws and PC cursors to make the delete button
visible to you, because it isn't without turning on the Jaws cursor, or at
least it wasn't for us here.
I need coffee!
Mayrie
_____
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:45 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Replacing the stupid ellipses character with
three periods.
(smile) No, I am not ready to throttle you, but you may be ready to
throttle me when I explain what you tried to explain. Okay. Three periods.
I get it. But with Grade II turned on in Jaws, I see three dots, like I
should for an elipsis. That is, three dots in a row, not three Braille
periods in a row. It is dot 3. So even if I see these three dots, rather
than a single space character which looks like a computer open parenthesis
or of sign with an extra little dot, I cannot be sure the Bookshare
translator will handle it correctly? Jaws translates it correctly on my
computer. That is what I was trying to say. (smile)
Now I will look at Judy's instructions.
Thanks,
Sue S.
From: Mayrie ReNae <mailto:mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 1:41 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Replacing the stupid ellipses character with
three periods.
Hi Sue,
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I think I do, but just in
case, I'll reiterate. Before I do, if you did the fix, you are not fine.
I'll attach proper instructions for getting rid of the evil single-character
ellipsis again. We thought the directions I wrote earlier worked, and they
did, until we reopened word. The current instructions do work, and do stick.
I have checked many times now! Have I said lately that I HATE Word!!!!!?
Now, to your request for clarification. Essentially, in braille, with grade
2 translation enabled, the single-character ellipsis, which Bookshare's
translation tools can't handle, and three periods typed without spaces
between them, which said tools can translate properly, appear the same in
braille. So, what I'm saying is that using only braille, it's difficult to
know which representation of the ellipsis you're seeing. Now that I've
deleted the stupid stupid single-character ellipsis, I can't check this, but
it should, that evil character that is, take up only one space, so right or
left arrowing over it should only take up one space. The proper three
periods take three right or left arrow presses to pass through the ellipsis.
Am I being unclear again?
I'm really sorry that we didn't have the proper fix the first time I gave
instructions! We really thought they worked. We know these work! And they
are, Judy's instructions, but with added instructions for how to accomplish
the task using Jaws. We needed to give more elaborate instructions because
the dang delete button in the dialogue doesn't appear without fiddling to
find it.
Please try what I'm attaching this time, and delete the old instructions if
you saved them somewhere! This file has the same name, by the way as the
first document that I sent, so if you save in the same place, your computer
will ask you if you want to replace the existing document bearing the same
name, you can happily tell it "yes"!
Again, I'm really sorry we didn't properly verify that our instructions
worked before. We didn't know we needed to! Now we know better. And Jon
still saved the day! Because, I'm not nearly geeky enough to have figured
this out on my own.
Okay, finally, I'm shutting up again!
Do you really, really want to throttle me now?
Mayrie
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 8:21 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Replacing the stupid ellipses character with
three periods.
Hi Mayrie,
Okay, I did Jon's fix, so hopefully I am now okay. You are saying that even
if one has Grade II on when working in Word, and if the elipses look like
three dots, the Bookshare translator will still interpret it wrong unless
you fix it? Is that right?
I hate to say this but it is only since the new site went up a couple of
years or so ago that this has happened. So I am really happy to know I can
fix it.
Sue S.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mayrie ReNae
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 7:40 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Replacing the stupid ellipses character with
three periods.
Hi Sue,
On my braille display, the ellipses character and the three periods show up
looking like the same thing. It's only when the rtf files go through
Bookshare's tools that makes a problem with the ellipses character. The
creation of the single-character ellipses is automatically on, so you
probably need to change it.
I would assume that turning off AutoFormatting altogether would fix the
problem. Though I don't know if other things would become problems. I don't
even know if one can turn off all of that stuff. Novel idea!
Mayrie
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 1:51 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Replacing the stupid ellipses character with
three periods.
Well, how about just turning off autoformat? Would that do it? Mine looks
okay, but I haven't done anything to it so it must be set okay.
Sue S.
-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Lumpkin
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 12:53 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Replacing the stupid ellipses character with
three periods.
Wow, I went into autoformat as you suggested and unfortunately, I can not
find what you were talking about anywhere. Has anyone else done this
replacement Mayrie is talking about? Thanks in advance.
Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mayrie ReNae
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 12:46 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Replacing the stupid ellipses character with three
periods.
Hi Lori and everyone,
Okay, I'm going to give admittedly terrible instructions here. Because I
have such a crummy memory that I can't remember what I just did!
I went into the AutoFormat tab, and somewhere in a list found where Word
says "dot dot dot". It's showing three periods and automatically replacing
them with that evil ellipses character. But right next to that character is
an edit box where you can replace with something. If you type three periods
in there, essentially telling Word to replace three periods with three
periods, you won't ever have to fix that evil character unless it appears in
your document before you ever type in the document. But anyway, if you type
three periods they'll stay there.
I'm really, really sorry. These are probably the worst instructions I've
ever given in my life. I hope someone else can give better instructions
than this.
And if the ellipses character appears as a part of an rtf document which
came to you uncorrected, I guess you'll still have to use find and replace
to fix them.
How did I get myself in this mess?
Mayrie
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