[bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's reactions and stpid questions

  • From: Elizabeth and Burton <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:14:35 -0500

And a lot of aggressive dogs get retired if the aggression cannot be dealt with because if they do not they get their people in trouble (smile). I actually agree with you that aggression may not show up until the dog and its person has left the school but I also know the schools jump on it quickly to deal with it if they are good schools. (smile)


At 11:11 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
Actually, smile.

Elizabeth, I beg to differ, have seen aggressive dogs come out of all the
schools.  Even ones that are tested still end up out in society.  And a lot
of the behaviors that are displayed come from the dog being around a new and
often unusual person not their trainer.

I have met aggressive dogs in all the breeds, Labs, goldens, and GSDs, both
towards people and other animals.

I remember this one lab once we came to this convention and every time I
brought my dog towards this dog, he would bark and lounge at my dog, while
the owner atteempted to "restrain" him.  This even happened when we were in
the state capital building doing advocacy work.  The dog had a huge bark
too.  I didn't see that dog much of the convention after that evening.

Smile.  They do a good job, all of the schools do, or they should, but even
they don't see the signs some times.

One of my friend's first dogs, was retired, from a reputable school after
she a GSD jumped up and nipped a guy leaning over my friend's shoulder.

Another dog had a terrible habbit of attacking other dogs at meetings and
after the owner tried a basket muzzle said dog was retired at three or four.

I have one friend who had two dogs from the same school that had extremely
high pray drive, one attacked a child's video game, didn't like the flashing
lights they figure.  And her second dog dragged her into an extremely busy
street after a cat.  This with severest of corrections and she could give
them with the best of them.

All of the above examples come from different schools.

And as my friends in the Animal rescue group always tells me sometimes there
are behavioral problems that don't show up in the foster or training stages
unless of course, smile, they are traded off to be with another person, or
are rehomed, to a person with a much different handling style.

I know I definitely have a different handling style than others do, and I
know it would show, in the dogs that I own.  One of my friends has a very
rambunctious guide, who, smile, wouldn't be a happy dog in my household, as
I discipline him when I watch him, and he doesn't do half the things around
me he does with his owner.  But I also allow certain things with my dog that
other handlers would frown down upon, like letting said dog on my bed,
smile.


Shelley L. Rhodes B.S. Ed, CTVI
and Judson, guiding golden
juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
Graduate Alumni Association Board
www.guidedogs.com

Dog ownership is like a rainbow.
 Puppies are the joy at one end.
 Old dogs are the treasure at the other.
Carolyn Alexander

----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth and Burton" <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:44 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's reactions and stpid questions


My school would have tested out the dog in various situations with various
kinds of people and would reject any dog displaying such symptoms.  A blind
person has enough to do whtout handling that.  No reputable school these
days lets such a dog out after training.  No reputable school in the past
did either.  I know this casts your school whoever it is in a bad light but
I have worked with dogs for thirty years and it is simply not fair to the
blind person or general public to work with such animals in social
situations (which means in a world with people grin!).

E.


At 07:16 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
>I agree.  The first dog I received was a German shepherd who, for some
>reason I never learned, didn't like Asian people.  I remember warning a
>friend who was Chinese not to pet her.  He didn't listen, and she bit him.
>Not badly, but to bite him at all was bad.  She was very protective of me
>in
>general, and I feared that other such incidents would occur.  She did
>retire
>early, but due to hip dysplasia.  I kept her because she was an excellent
>guide, and we worked well together, but in the back of my mind I felt
>guilty, because I knew she might bite again.  I've had two dogs since then,
>and neither has demonstrated such tendencies.
>
>I'm thinking about getting another dog, but that opens a whole new can of
>worms.  I haven't decided how people will react to the dog.  I've done my
>current job for the past five years as a cane user, and I'm not sure how
>people's opinions will change if I get a dog.
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Shelley L. Rhodes
>Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 8:59 AM
>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's reactions and stpid questions
>
>Yes indeed that is definitely over protectiness and that dog should be
>retired.  I have met several dogs, who were "managed" like your friends dog
>and all of them ended up retiring early usually after the escalated into
>nipping people or other dogs.
>
>Aggression is a trait that we do not want to see in a guide dog of any
>breed.
>
>Shelley L. Rhodes B.S. Ed, CTVI
>and Judson, guiding golden
>juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
>Graduate Alumni Association Board
>www.guidedogs.com
>
>Dog ownership is like a rainbow.
>  Puppies are the joy at one end.
>  Old dogs are the treasure at the other.
>Carolyn Alexander
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "robert tweedy" <roberttweedy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 8:10 AM
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's reactions and stpid questions
>
>
>That sounds like over protectness, our school wouldn't like that.
>For skype contact bobwichitaks
>For msn contact info rt5117@xxxxxxx no emails.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Elizabeth and Burton" <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 12:47 AM
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's reactions and stpid questions
>
>
> >I would question the wisdom of any school letting a dog out into everyday
> >reality which reacted in such a way to sudden moves.  Just my opinion.
> >My
> >school certainly would cull such a dog out.  It is just too unsafe for
> >the
> >dog's person otherwise.
> >
> > E.
> >
> >
> > At 01:44 AM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
> >
> >>Once I was in a restaurant with a friend who had a guide dog, hallf
> >>German
> >>shephere and half German police.  The dog was a good worker but did not
> >>like
> >>sudden moves.  A man at our table dropped the lid to the catsup bottle
> >>on
> >>the floor under the table.  The dog was under there, and his partnner
> >>warned
> >>the man not to get the top because the dog might bite.  Well, the man
> >>did
> >>not listen and the dog bit him.  Since there were witnesses that the man
> >>had
> >>been warned, the man did not press charges, but did need a few stitches.
> >>
> >>Sue S.
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Shelley L. Rhodes" <juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 10:08 PM
> >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's reactions and stpid questions
> >>
> >>
> >>I don't mind if people ask to pet my dog, particularly if he is laying
> >>down
> >>somewhere, or if I am in a familiar place, like my church, at Western,
> >>or
> >>at
> >>my job this summer.  In fact Judson knows the command "Go say hi" and
> >>knows
> >>he is allowed to be a dog, when I give that command.
> >>
> >>Now... I do need to reinforce this sigh, at the church though as a
> >>couple
> >>of
> >>the girls are taking liberties.
> >>
> >>But I don't have a problem with people who ask if I have the time.
> >>
> >>But if I say NO there is a reason why I am saying NO, and please respect
> >>that, smile.
> >>
> >>Some people don't.
> >>
> >>Shelley L. Rhodes B.S. Ed, CTVI
> >>and Judson, guiding golden
> >>juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
> >>Graduate Alumni Association Board
> >>www.guidedogs.com
> >>
> >>Dog ownership is like a rainbow.
> >>  Puppies are the joy at one end.
> >>  Old dogs are the treasure at the other.
> >>Carolyn Alexander
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: <barbarab65@xxxxxxx>
> >>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 7:02 PM
> >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's reactions and stpid questions
> >>
> >>
> >>Sometimes, in the right circumstances, I ask people who are not blind if
> >>I
> >>can pet their dog. Therefore, it would seem normal for me to ask someone
> >>who
> >>is
> >>  in blind, in the right circumstances, if I could pet his or her dog.
> >> Now, I
> >>know  not to do this, anymore. I think that the sign helps because it is
> >>a
> >>natural  inclination to pet dogs.
> >>
> >>Blind
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----
>------
> >>
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