[bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Fwd: Fw: Blind sight

Hi Cindy:
Just a note on this subject:
I lost my vision at 39 years old, my dreams usially are visual, so I think it is the way the brain works.
George R. Marshall
geom4@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 2:15 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Fwd: Fw: Blind sight



Interesting, Sheri. So spending some time, like a few
days or week with contacts or a tight blindfold or
eyes shut, wouldn't give a sighted person the same
experience, or at least something of an idea? I think
there was an actor who did that to prepare for a role.


I do find it difficult to imagine dreams without visuals, although I have a good imagination. But Louise and Allison have given me explanations that I begin to understand--sensations of where one is, like, as Louise said, where she used to live, and people's voices, and perhaps the sensation that someone is present. I think I can begin to understand. Perhaps it's a little like deja vu--when we have the feeling, even though awake and seeing something not related, what we've been in a place or a situation before.

Cindy

Cindy

--- Sheri Wells-Jensen <swellsj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi, Cindy,

When ever I teach a class of creative writers,
there's always one student
who come sup to me after class to ask something
like: "What's it really like
to be you."  I used to try to answer this question.
then, I realized it was
impossible.  Now, I ask the student to explain what
it's like to be him/her
first. Before I can contrast my experience, I really
have to know what it's
really like experientially to perceive objects at a
distance and use that
experience as information about the environment and
act on that information
without conscious thought.  I can't isolate any
'real' difference between
sighted people's experience and my own
unless I know what two things I'm contrasting.  I
don't think you can ask
someone who had significant sight and lost it either
since having had sight
would effect how you process information.
Maybe, there is some wayof perceiving reality that
all blind people share
that is fundamentally different than sighted
experience, but the older I
get, the more I doubt that.
If there really were some truly interesting
fundamental difference, we'd
have a lot more trouble getting along with you'all
than we usually do!
*smile*
My students, by the way, give up the task of
explaining *their* reality
pretty quickly!  they're looking for something
exotic.  I always feel just a
little sad to have to disappoint them!

FWIW,

Sheri W-J

----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 11:21 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Fwd: Fw: Blind
sight



> Thanks, Allison, for the info.
>
> Yes, I would not like to feel pain in my dreams. I
> don't think I feel in my dreams--except
occasionally
> emotions, which last for a while when I wake up.
And
> occasionally smells and sounds, but I think they
enter
> my dreams from the outside.
>
> Cindy
>
> --- Allison Mervis <allisonfm@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I dream entirely in sensation and sound. It's
like I
>> don't have to see in my
>> dreams in order to know where I'm going. I can
also
>> feel pain while
>> dreaming, and a lot of people I've talked to
can't.
>> Sometimes I wish I
>> couldn't.
>> Allison
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "mickey" <micka@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 9:51 PM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Fwd: Fw: Blind
>> sight
>>
>>
>> >I dream more in sounds, Cindy. When I was little
>> and could see more light,
>> >sometimes I'd see things like flame, but
whatever I
>> saw had to be bright.
>> >But I've heard people say something to me, and
it's
>> made me wake up. I also
>> >dream some in sensation.
>> >
>> > Some research has been done regarding sleep of
>> blind people. Some of us
>> > move our fingers in REM sleep, as you would
your
>> eyes.
>> >
>> >
>> > Mickey Prahin
>> > micka@xxxxxxxxxx
>> > MSN: mickeylundgren@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Phone: (614) 670-4011
>> > Check out Bob's new CD at
>> > http://www.boballentrio.com
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
>> <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 1:57 PM
>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] OT: Fwd: Fw: Blind
sight
>> >
>> >
>> >> This article relates, subject-wise, to one
that I
>> >> forwarded a while back--vision being given to
a
>> man
>> >> who was blind fo forty years, having lost his
>> sight at
>> >> age three.
>> >>
>> >> The article mentions dreams. I've wondered,
but
>> have
>> >> refrained from asking, what the dreams of
blind
>> people
>> >> are like. Does the brain create pictures and
>> shapes
>> >> from the various sensations you have during
the
>> day? I
>> >> hope you don't mind my asking.
>> >>
>> >> Cindy
>> >>
>> >> --- Louise <bookscanner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> From: "Louise" <bookscanner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>> To: "Louise Gourdoux"
>> <bookscanner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>> Subject: Fw: Blind sight
>> >>> Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:05:00 -0500
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> The Guardian (UK)
>> >>> Wednesday, May 17, 2006
>> >>>
>> >>> Blind sight
>> >>>
>> >>> By Sue Blackmore
>> >>>
>> >>> Restoring vision to the blind sounds like a
>> miracle
>> >>> - but for the patients
>> >>> in question, it can seem like a nightmare.
>> >>>
>> >>> What is it like for the blind to see again?
You
>> >>> might think it would be a
>> >>> delight, with the previously handicapped
person
>> >>> opening their eyes to a
>> >>> wondrous world of colour, depth, movement and
>> faces,
>> >>> and a new and better
>> >>> life. But that (if you are a normal seeing
>> person)
>> >>> is probably because you
>> >>> think of vision as an easy task for the brain
-
>> >>> after all, it seems so easy.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is far from the truth. In fact, vision
>> takes
>> >>> vast brain power and a lot
>> >>> of it is learned, so the newly-sighted have a
>> tough
>> >>> job on. And the few
>> >>> previously documented cases are mostly sad
>> stories
>> >>> of fear, depression, and
>> >>> even suicide.
>> >>>
>> >>> This week I was lucky enough to be invited,
>> along
>> >>> with a small group of
>> >>> vision scientists, to meet a blind man made
to
>> see -
>> >>> this time by the
>> >>> wonders of corneal stem cell transplantation.
>> Mike
>> >>> May, a Californian who
>> >>> became blind at the age of three, had his
sight
>> >>> restored in one eye over
>> >>> forty years later. One of the organisers was
>> Richard
>> >>> Gregory, who did
>> >>> classic research in the 1960s with patient,
SB.
>> >>>
>> >>> Our questions ranged from dreams and
imagination
>> to
>> >>> how to cope with traffic
>> >>> and sports, but among the most fascinating
>> things we
>> >>> learned was how
>> >>> overwhelming the visual world is for someone
who
>> is
>> >>> not used to it, and how
>> >>> much sighted people take for granted their
>> ability
>> >>> to ignore it. For Mike,
>> >>> looking out of his high up hotel window means
>> seeing
>> >>> the teeming cars as
>> >>> full size cars, while knowing that somehow he
>> ought
>> >>> to see them as smaller.
>> >>> He described the difference from his previous
>> world
>> >>> in which he knew the
>> >>> cars were there but was not bombarded with
>> details
>> >>> of colour, shape, number,
>> >>> and direction.
>> >>>
>> >>> Amazingly, Mike was an expert skier while
blind,
>> >>> following a guide who
>> >>> called out instructions. He described to us
the
>> joy
>> >>> of seeing mountains
>> >>> (when he could work out that was what he was
>> seeing)
>> >>> and the confusion of
>> >>> skiing with sight. Trees were dark and
obviously
>> to
>> >>> be avoided, but shadows
>> >>> were dark too, and hence very scary. It made
me
>> >>> reflect on how valuable is
>> >>> our ability not to be distracted by shadows.
>> Indeed
>> >>> he finds skiing and
>> >>> crossing the road more frightening with
vision
>> than
>> >>> he used to do without.
>> >>>
>> >>> He talked about synaesthesia too. While many
>> people
>> >>> see numbers or sounds as
>> >>> having their own colour, for Mike it was
Braille
>> >>> letters that were
>> >>> coloured - and, as he put it "people thought
I
>> was
>> >>> nuts". Most strange for
>> >>> him are faces which seem to have so much more
>> detail
>> >>> than he had expected
>> >>> from touching them all his life - but whether
he
>> >>> sees and recognises them in
>> >>> anything like the way normally sighted people
>> do, we
>> >>> could not tell.
>> >>>
>> >>> I realised how very difficult it is to ask
>> >>> meaningful questions and
>> >>> understand the answers when you are talking
to
>> >>> someone whose experience is
>> >>> so different from your own - and this is, of
>> course,
>> >>> what makes Mike so
>> >>> special. But should I go further? Perhaps I
>> should
>> >>> not be asking what it's
>> >>> like for the blind to see, but what it's like
>> for
>> >>> anyone to see. For
>> >>> scientists are far from agreement over this,
and
>> I
>> >>> have agonised about the
>> >>> nature of conscious vision for years.
>> >>>
>> >>> So look around you now. What is it like to
see?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>


http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue_blackmore/2006/05/what_is_it_like_fo
>> >>> r_the_blind.html
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -- >> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >>> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database:
268.6.0/342 -
>> >>> Release Date: 5/17/2006
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
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