[bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Fwd: Fw: Blind sight
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:15:30 -0700 (PDT)
Interesting, Sheri. So spending some time, like a few
days or week with contacts or a tight blindfold or
eyes shut, wouldn't give a sighted person the same
experience, or at least something of an idea? I think
there was an actor who did that to prepare for a role.
I do find it difficult to imagine dreams without
visuals, although I have a good imagination. But
Louise and Allison have given me explanations that I
begin to understand--sensations of where one is, like,
as Louise said, where she used to live, and people's
voices, and perhaps the sensation that someone is
present. I think I can begin to understand. Perhaps
it's a little like deja vu--when we have the feeling,
even though awake and seeing something not related,
what we've been in a place or a situation before.
Cindy
Cindy
--- Sheri Wells-Jensen <swellsj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi, Cindy,
>
> When ever I teach a class of creative writers,
> there's always one student
> who come sup to me after class to ask something
> like: "What's it really like
> to be you." I used to try to answer this question.
> then, I realized it was
> impossible. Now, I ask the student to explain what
> it's like to be him/her
> first. Before I can contrast my experience, I really
> have to know what it's
> really like experientially to perceive objects at a
> distance and use that
> experience as information about the environment and
> act on that information
> without conscious thought. I can't isolate any
> 'real' difference between
> sighted people's experience and my own
> unless I know what two things I'm contrasting. I
> don't think you can ask
> someone who had significant sight and lost it either
> since having had sight
> would effect how you process information.
> Maybe, there is some wayof perceiving reality that
> all blind people share
> that is fundamentally different than sighted
> experience, but the older I
> get, the more I doubt that.
> If there really were some truly interesting
> fundamental difference, we'd
> have a lot more trouble getting along with you'all
> than we usually do!
> *smile*
> My students, by the way, give up the task of
> explaining *their* reality
> pretty quickly! they're looking for something
> exotic. I always feel just a
> little sad to have to disappoint them!
>
> FWIW,
>
> Sheri W-J
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 11:21 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Fwd: Fw: Blind
> sight
>
>
> > Thanks, Allison, for the info.
> >
> > Yes, I would not like to feel pain in my dreams. I
> > don't think I feel in my dreams--except
> occasionally
> > emotions, which last for a while when I wake up.
> And
> > occasionally smells and sounds, but I think they
> enter
> > my dreams from the outside.
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> > --- Allison Mervis <allisonfm@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> I dream entirely in sensation and sound. It's
> like I
> >> don't have to see in my
> >> dreams in order to know where I'm going. I can
> also
> >> feel pain while
> >> dreaming, and a lot of people I've talked to
> can't.
> >> Sometimes I wish I
> >> couldn't.
> >> Allison
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "mickey" <micka@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 9:51 PM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Fwd: Fw: Blind
> >> sight
> >>
> >>
> >> >I dream more in sounds, Cindy. When I was little
> >> and could see more light,
> >> >sometimes I'd see things like flame, but
> whatever I
> >> saw had to be bright.
> >> >But I've heard people say something to me, and
> it's
> >> made me wake up. I also
> >> >dream some in sensation.
> >> >
> >> > Some research has been done regarding sleep of
> >> blind people. Some of us
> >> > move our fingers in REM sleep, as you would
> your
> >> eyes.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Mickey Prahin
> >> > micka@xxxxxxxxxx
> >> > MSN: mickeylundgren@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > Phone: (614) 670-4011
> >> > Check out Bob's new CD at
> >> > http://www.boballentrio.com
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
> >> <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 1:57 PM
> >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] OT: Fwd: Fw: Blind
> sight
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> This article relates, subject-wise, to one
> that I
> >> >> forwarded a while back--vision being given to
> a
> >> man
> >> >> who was blind fo forty years, having lost his
> >> sight at
> >> >> age three.
> >> >>
> >> >> The article mentions dreams. I've wondered,
> but
> >> have
> >> >> refrained from asking, what the dreams of
> blind
> >> people
> >> >> are like. Does the brain create pictures and
> >> shapes
> >> >> from the various sensations you have during
> the
> >> day? I
> >> >> hope you don't mind my asking.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cindy
> >> >>
> >> >> --- Louise <bookscanner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> From: "Louise" <bookscanner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> To: "Louise Gourdoux"
> >> <bookscanner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> Subject: Fw: Blind sight
> >> >>> Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:05:00 -0500
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The Guardian (UK)
> >> >>> Wednesday, May 17, 2006
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Blind sight
> >> >>>
> >> >>> By Sue Blackmore
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Restoring vision to the blind sounds like a
> >> miracle
> >> >>> - but for the patients
> >> >>> in question, it can seem like a nightmare.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> What is it like for the blind to see again?
> You
> >> >>> might think it would be a
> >> >>> delight, with the previously handicapped
> person
> >> >>> opening their eyes to a
> >> >>> wondrous world of colour, depth, movement and
> >> faces,
> >> >>> and a new and better
> >> >>> life. But that (if you are a normal seeing
> >> person)
> >> >>> is probably because you
> >> >>> think of vision as an easy task for the brain
> -
> >> >>> after all, it seems so easy.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> This is far from the truth. In fact, vision
> >> takes
> >> >>> vast brain power and a lot
> >> >>> of it is learned, so the newly-sighted have a
> >> tough
> >> >>> job on. And the few
> >> >>> previously documented cases are mostly sad
> >> stories
> >> >>> of fear, depression, and
> >> >>> even suicide.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> This week I was lucky enough to be invited,
> >> along
> >> >>> with a small group of
> >> >>> vision scientists, to meet a blind man made
> to
> >> see -
> >> >>> this time by the
> >> >>> wonders of corneal stem cell transplantation.
> >> Mike
> >> >>> May, a Californian who
> >> >>> became blind at the age of three, had his
> sight
> >> >>> restored in one eye over
> >> >>> forty years later. One of the organisers was
> >> Richard
> >> >>> Gregory, who did
> >> >>> classic research in the 1960s with patient,
> SB.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Our questions ranged from dreams and
> imagination
> >> to
> >> >>> how to cope with traffic
> >> >>> and sports, but among the most fascinating
> >> things we
> >> >>> learned was how
> >> >>> overwhelming the visual world is for someone
> who
> >> is
> >> >>> not used to it, and how
> >> >>> much sighted people take for granted their
> >> ability
> >> >>> to ignore it. For Mike,
> >> >>> looking out of his high up hotel window means
> >> seeing
> >> >>> the teeming cars as
> >> >>> full size cars, while knowing that somehow he
> >> ought
> >> >>> to see them as smaller.
> >> >>> He described the difference from his previous
> >> world
> >> >>> in which he knew the
> >> >>> cars were there but was not bombarded with
> >> details
> >> >>> of colour, shape, number,
> >> >>> and direction.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Amazingly, Mike was an expert skier while
> blind,
> >> >>> following a guide who
> >> >>> called out instructions. He described to us
> the
> >> joy
> >> >>> of seeing mountains
> >> >>> (when he could work out that was what he was
> >> seeing)
> >> >>> and the confusion of
> >> >>> skiing with sight. Trees were dark and
> obviously
> >> to
> >> >>> be avoided, but shadows
> >> >>> were dark too, and hence very scary. It made
> me
> >> >>> reflect on how valuable is
> >> >>> our ability not to be distracted by shadows.
> >> Indeed
> >> >>> he finds skiing and
> >> >>> crossing the road more frightening with
> vision
> >> than
> >> >>> he used to do without.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> He talked about synaesthesia too. While many
> >> people
> >> >>> see numbers or sounds as
> >> >>> having their own colour, for Mike it was
> Braille
> >> >>> letters that were
> >> >>> coloured - and, as he put it "people thought
> I
> >> was
> >> >>> nuts". Most strange for
> >> >>> him are faces which seem to have so much more
> >> detail
> >> >>> than he had expected
> >> >>> from touching them all his life - but whether
> he
> >> >>> sees and recognises them in
> >> >>> anything like the way normally sighted people
> >> do, we
> >> >>> could not tell.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I realised how very difficult it is to ask
> >> >>> meaningful questions and
> >> >>> understand the answers when you are talking
> to
> >> >>> someone whose experience is
> >> >>> so different from your own - and this is, of
> >> course,
> >> >>> what makes Mike so
> >> >>> special. But should I go further? Perhaps I
> >> should
> >> >>> not be asking what it's
> >> >>> like for the blind to see, but what it's like
> >> for
> >> >>> anyone to see. For
> >> >>> scientists are far from agreement over this,
> and
> >> I
> >> >>> have agonised about the
> >> >>> nature of conscious vision for years.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> So look around you now. What is it like to
> see?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >>
> >
>
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue_blackmore/2006/05/what_is_it_like_fo
> >> >>> r_the_blind.html
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >> >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> >>> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database:
> 268.6.0/342 -
> >> >>> Release Date: 5/17/2006
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
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