[bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
- From: "Tammy Blaker" <wyomiia@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:04:44 -0500
Hi all,
I down load a few books which would have to be labeled Porn. Daily Sex, being
one. The book is just what it says it is. Maybe the whole problem could be
solved by labeling such books as porn, not adult.
How to tell the difference is easy if it has a plot it is adult, if not it is
Porn. Although to think about it a medical book on sex could then be labeled
Porn...back to the drawing board.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:56 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
You make some good points, Kim, concerning sex and violence in fiction, but I
have noticed that it is the sex that gets objected to much more frequently and
strenuously than violence. With that in mind I would like to offer my own
perspective on sex in fiction. Graphic descriptions of sex are neither here nor
there for me. They do not bother me in the least and I really do not have a
glimmer of an idea of how they could bother anyone else. At the same time there
is nothing about them that draws me to them either. I have noticed, though,
that if a book has graphic descriptions of sex I am less likely to be
interested in the book itself and the more such descriptions that are in a book
the less interested I am likely to be. That is because such books tend to be in
general shallow. They are just frivolous entertainment with not a whole lot to
make one think. I do emphasize, though, that it is only a tendency and that
means that there are exceptions. A very good exception that comes to mind is
Dhalgren by Samuel R. Delaney. There are very graphic descriptions of sex
pretty much from cover to cover in that one and it would still be hard to call
it shallow in the least.
"The end may
justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the end.
" Leon Trotsky
The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com Pathfinder Press:
http://www.pathfinderpress.com
Granma International: http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
_
table with 2 columns and 6 rows
Subj:
[bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
Date:
9/9/2009 3:00:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From:
kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx
Reply-to:
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To:
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent from the Internet
(Details)
table end
Hi, Gwen, giving book recommendations is tricky at the best of times. If you
object to sex and violence in books, you must ask why you find them
objectionable. Do you find the sex in a particular book gratuitous? Do the
characters act uncaring toward each other? The same goes for violence.
Personally, I know people who like James Patterson's books, but I have
problems with his work. When I read Along Came a Spider, he had two
psychopaths in one novel. To me, that's overkill. Sex and violence are in
this world. You can't make babies without sex, and I don't mind reading
about a caring relationship where two people are enjoying each other in bed.
My problem is with the uncaring and gratuitous way violence and sex can be
handled in books. I think if a character is a louse, he or she will be
uncaring in his/her relationship with others and this case, I would say this
is part of the story and might be deemed necessary. The thing is, Gwen, you
are a grown-up and intelligent person. If you download a book and you
dislike it for whatever reason, you know you can delete it from wherever you
are reading it. There are people writing today who tell a good story. That
being said, opinions will differ on what constitutes a good story. What I'm
saying is that there are no hard and fast rules here. You like what you
like, and maybe you'll come across a book you never thought you'd ever like.
Reading is an adventure, isn't it? You never can tell what you might find to
peak your fancy. I read a couple of novels by Dostoyevsky and I'm glad I
read them. That being said, however, I concluded that while I don't regret
reading those novels, I couldn't understand his characters for the life of
me. What made them react to their lives in the way they did? I couldn't
understand their psychological motivation or their culture. So now you know
something about what I think about book recommendations and the use of sex
and violence. I hope you weren't scandalized. Regards, Kim.
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Soronel Haetir
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:27 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
Once more I am in agreement with Roger. If your sensibilities are that
tender it should be up to you to take whatever steps you require to find
something you can enjoy. Asking others to cater to you at that level is
simply too much.
On 9/8/09, Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx <Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Some time ago I recall Pavi saying that the dictionary that algorithm
> uses was reviewed and that it was laughable when they saw some of the
> words that were in it. Supposedly that was corrected, but I very much
> suspect that I would still consider it laughable. Honestly, I was once
> telling someone something another person said. I mentioned that the
> person had said that another person was pissed off. I do not
> ordinarily use that phrase myself, but since I was relating what
> someone else said I did that time. I was angrily accused of being
> obscene. It never even occurred to me in my wildest speculations that
> anyone would consider that to be obscene and if I had found it in that
> dictionary of prohibited words and phrases I would have found that
> laughable.
> Nevertheless, someone did consider it obscene. That is why I tend to
> think that the person who is offended by so-called "adult" words has
> the problem, not the one who utters them.
>
>
> "The end may justify the means as long as there is something that
> justifies the end.
> " Leon Trotsky
>
> The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com Pathfinder
Press:
> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
> Granma International: http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
> _
>
> table with 2 columns and 6 rows
> Subj:
> [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
> Date:
> 9/8/2009 10:48:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> From:
> cherryjam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Reply-to:
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To:
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent from the Internet
> (Details)
> table end
>
> Evan, I've wondered about how that algorithm works too, because of the
> children's books I've proofed that were erroneously marked as adult by
> the algorithm. I'd bet part of it is based on Bookshare useing a
> dictionary of words that can be considered adult (with some contexting
> built in, I'd guess). The final designation of adult comes about by
> using a weighting of the number of times words/terms/phrases appear
> factored against the total number of words in a book. So if you have
> a children's book with very few words, and one of the 'suspect' words
> appears, although it could be in a totally innocent context, bam! The
> children's book is going to get rated as adult. I had that happen a
> few months ago with a board book I was proofreading!
>
> Just guessing here, of course. smile.
>
> Judy s.
>
> EVAN REESE wrote:
>> What determines adult content is ultimately the proofreader.
>> Bookshare's computer can mark a book either Adult or not, using some
>> secret algorithm that staff refuses to divulge to us, but the
>> proofreader can change the Bookshare computer's choice if he/she
>> feels that a change is justified. It used to be either the submitter
>> and/or the proofreader, but Bookshare took that choice away from
>> submitters and seems to have no inclination to give it back.
>
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>
>
--
Soronel Haetir
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