[bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.

I thought, not in the legal sense re  books but in language, that certian 
4-letter words are generally considered to be obscenity, and that is to what I 
refer when I put my warning in the synopsis

Cindy



Wish List (i.e., books wanted added to the collection) and books-being-scanned 
list available at sites below







Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List



Books Being Scanned List: 
https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 8:20 PM

Certainly the legal definition of obscenity in the US is incredibly subjective.

A statement that a work has explicit sexual material etc however is
much more factual in nature than the obscenity call.  If a work meets
the legal definition bookshare should not carry it because it is in
fact illegal to both distribute and receive obscene material, though
legal to possess.  That last may seem somewhat strange but is
nonetheless true.

On 9/10/09, Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx <Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> It is hard for me to see how it could be a statement of fact rather than
> opinion. I know that the very most explicit descriptions of sex do not
> strike
> me as obscene. Yet, I am quite aware that there are others who do not agree
> with that even if I have a hard time understanding their perspective. That
> makes it a matter of opinion as I understand the word opinion.
>
>
> "The end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies
> the end.
> " Leon Trotsky
>
>                  The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com Pathfinder Press:
> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
> Granma International: http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>                  _
>
> table with 2 columns and 6 rows
> Subj:
> [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
> Date:
> 9/10/2009 10:07:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> From:
> popularplace@xxxxxxxxx
> Reply-to:
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To:
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent from the Internet
> (Details)
> table end
>
> Possibly; but I consider the reviews to be the place for my opinions of the
> book, e.g., whether it's well-written, a little strange but worth reading..
> A
> statement that a book has explicit descriptions of sex, or violence , or
> torture, or obscenities or profanity is a satement of fact, not my opinion,
> and
> for those who don't want to read books that contain such I think the
> warning should be in the synopsis, not my review.
>
> Cindy
>
> Wish List (i.e., books wanted added to the collection) and
> books-being-scanned list available at sites below
>
> Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List
>
> Books Being Scanned List:
> https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List
>
> --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx <Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> block quote
>
> From: Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx <Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you..
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 9:44 AM
>
> When it comes to these warnings of sex, violence and strong language I
> wonder if it might be more appropriate to write a review and include them
> there.
> That is where opinions belong and these warnings really are a matter of
> opinion, especially the ones about strong language. As I said, I have read
> NLS
> books that were labeled as containing explicit descriptions of sex and
> strong language. When finished I found myself asking two questions. There
> were
> descriptions
> of sex, but how was it explicit? The second one was where was the strong
> language at all?
>
>                                                                  "The end
> may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the end.
> " Leon Trotsky
>
>              The Militant:
> http://www.themilitant.com
> Pathfinder Press:
> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
> Granma International:
> http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>              _
>
> table with 2 columns and 6 rows
> Subj:
> [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
> Date:
> 9/9/2009 6:46:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>
> From:
> popularplace@xxxxxxxxx
> Reply-to:
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To:
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent from the Internet
> (Details)
> table end
>
> I do exactly what you suggest. Unfortunately since there isn't, or wasn't
> when there was a 250 limit in the short synopsis I put such a warning in the
> long synopsis.
>
> Cindy
>
> Wish List (i.e., books wanted added to the collection) and
> books-being-scanned list available at sites below
>
> Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List
>
> Books Being Scanned List:
> https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List
>
> --- On Wed, 9/9/09, Judy s. <cherryjam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> block quote
>
> From: Judy s. <cherryjam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 10:49 AM
>
> Jackie, I so get what you are saying (and I'm so sorry about your
> daughter!). It isn't a case of censorship. It's a case of wanting to be able
> to
> appropriately
> choose what to read. I've lost one third of my entire family in the last
> few years in not one, but two separate car accidents, one that was so
> horrific
> it was reported in photos and TV news across the Midwest. I don't want to
> just open a book that involves anything graphic regarding car accidents,
> because
> of that. It's still too raw, and I don't want to be 'surprised' by it when
> I am reading or proofreading something.
>
> The NLS system does seem better than the bookshare way of marking things as
> adult or not adult, because it at least helps raise a flag to help people
> decide
> what to read before they come across things they don't want to read.
>
> Judy s.
>
> Jackie McBride wrote:
>> Perhaps to put this in a bit of context:
>> a) I have had books that were *obviously* meant for children marked as
>> adult lol! but
>> b) Rather than adult or not, I do wish that bookshare would do what
>> the NLS does & put stuff like explicit descriptions of sex, violence,
>> strong language, etc., in the summary. That way, folks who aren't
>> particularly interested in reading that stuff know what they're
>> getting *b4* they come across it.
>>
>> I'll give an example, &, though it's probably a poor 1, may hopefully
>> serve to illustrate the point.
>>
>> My daughter was very brutally murdered in 2007. I was deeply affected
>> by the event, having nightmares for many months in vivid technicolor
>> of the descriptions I had been given of the scene by the police. I
>> hadn't dreamed in color for many years, but it certainly let me know I
>> could do that. I decided as a diversion to proof a book for bookshare.
>> I downloaded it, & the 1st chapter contained a rather graphic scene of
>> a native American being tortured. Let's just say I did not fare well
>> (the understatement of the century) & leave it at that. I'm certain
>> some of the volunteers on the list at that time remember the incident
>> as a few gave me some counseling regarding my conflict as a new
>> volunteer between finishing what I started but feeling unable to
>> continue, which, was, btw, appreciated. Had I known the book contained
>> graphic violence, I obviously never would have downloaded it. Perhaps
>> this is extreme, but I do think that we should have some way of
>> knowing that books we're thinking about contain these things in case
>> we don't want to read about them, or, in the case of parents, in case
>> we don't want our children reading them.
>>
>> So perhaps there should be checkmarks for things like violence,
>> language, & sex. Just my $02, as opposed to simply being rated adult.
>>
>> On 9/9/09, Chela Robles <
> cdrobles693@xxxxxxxxx
>> wrote:
>>> Gwinn, everyone has different tastes, for instance, I don't like the way
>>> Kenny G plays his saxophone, circular breathing, that is how Rafael
> Mendez,
>>> a trumpeter died, did something to his lungs and decreased velocity, I
> don't
>>> like Rick Braun, a trumpeter, his style is not my favorite, I like to
>>> broaden my horizon when it comes to books, but again, if I don't feel
>>> comfortable about reading a book say about gays and lesbians, for
> example,
>>> then I'd just delete it no harm will come to me anyway, it just depends
> on
>>> your preference, like if you like only vanilla, to me, I have to have
>>> something other than vanilla ice cream because it is just blah to me,
> get
>>> what I trying to say here? I have to agree with Roger, Cindy, and
> everyone
>>> else here. Don't take this personally though, guys, can we stop this
>>> discussion, please and go on with our lives, because it is ultimately up
> to
>>> the person whether they choose what to read or not, end of discussion,
> thank
>>> you!
>>> Chela Robles jazz trumpeter/enthusiast/almost LMT
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: gwen tweedy
>>> To:
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:22 AM
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's not so much uncomfortable as
>>> lots of those books they have loads of it I have one grown daughter, so
>>> I'm not as prudish as you might imagine. But when you have just pages
> and
>>> pages of discriptions which really add nothing to a story I guess I just
>>> don't need to read about it and my nieces and nephes if they had to be
> here,
>>> don't need to read about it either and if it's marked as no adult
> content,
>>> that would say to me that anyone could read it.
>>> I don't care what people read but there is plenty of books out there I
>>> have seen even in here, that doesn't have that stuff and it's perfectly
>>> enjoyable.
>>> A person does it in the privacy of their bedrooms I don't care if it
> sales
>>> or not for me it doesn't sell. And I as a reader have just as much right
> to
>>> read the tamer stuff and can have the right to have that choice without
>>> worrying if I'm gonna stumble on what I determine as sorry but for me
>>> personally it is smut.
>>> For you it's fine reading yea that is good but I should be able to go
> into
>>> one of these departments and be free from that if I so choose.
>>> I pick out what I want at the grocery store so I should be able to do
> the
>>> same here. Supposing my niece had been looking over my shoulder I didn't
>>> know about this particular book and opened it
>>> sorry but thanks, but no thanks my niece and I shouldn't accidentally
>>> stumble upon this in trying to find a book.
>>> I know I'm wierd. I except that.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From:
> Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
>>> To:
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 11:43 PM
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed, it is up to the person with tender sensibilities to find
>>> something they can enjoy rather than ask someone else to cater to those
>>> sensibilities, but frankly, I don't see how they can do it. I have
> noticed
>>> that the most popular topic of small talk wherever you go, beating out
> even
>>> the weather, is sex. If I were going to avoid the topic of sex I think I
>>> would just have to quit reading and having conversations. So, not only
> is it
>>> an almost impossible topic to avoid, it is also a topic that I can't see
> how
>>> it could make anyone uncomfortable. That is like being offended by
> someone
>>> saying that they went to the grocery store yesterday. I would think that
>>> maintaining such an attitude toward sex would be a lot more stressful
> than
>>> actually being exposed to it if one does have that attitude.
>>>
>>> "The
>>> end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies
> the
>>> end.
>>> " Leon Trotsky
>>>
>>> The Militant:
> http://www.themilitant.com
> Pathfinder Press:
>>>
> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
>>> Granma International:
> http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>>> _
>>>
>>> table with 2 columns and 6 rows
>>> Subj:
>>> [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
>>> Date:
>>> 9/9/2009 12:27:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>>> From:
>>>
> soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Reply-to:
>>>
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> To:
>>>
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent from the Internet
>>> (Details)
>>> table end
>>>
>>> Once more I am in agreement with Roger. If your sensibilities are
>>> that tender it should be up to you to take whatever steps you require
>>> to find something you can enjoy. Asking others to cater to you at
>>> that level is simply too much.
>>>
>>> On 9/8/09,
> Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
> <Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
>> wrote:
>>> > Some time ago I recall Pavi saying that the dictionary that algorithm
>>> uses
>>> > was reviewed and that it was laughable when they saw some of the words
>>> that
>>> > were in it. Supposedly that was corrected, but I very much suspect
>>> that I
>>> > would still consider it laughable. Honestly, I was once telling
>>> someone
>>> > something another person said. I mentioned that the person had said
>>> that
>>> > another
>>> > person was pissed off. I do not ordinarily use that phrase myself, but
>>> since
>>> > I was relating what someone else said I did that time. I was angrily
>>> accused
>>> > of being obscene. It never even occurred to me in my wildest
>>> speculations
>>> > that anyone would consider that to be obscene and if I had found it in
>>> that
>>> > dictionary of prohibited words and phrases I would have found that
>>> > laughable.
>>> > Nevertheless, someone did consider it obscene. That is why I tend to
>>> think
>>> > that the person who is offended by so-called "adult" words has the
>>> problem,
>>> > not the one who utters them.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "The end may justify the means as long as there is something that
>>> justifies
>>> > the end.
>>> > " Leon Trotsky
>>> >
>>> > The Militant:
> http://www.themilitant.com
> Pathfinder
>>> Press:
>>> >
> http://www..pathfinderpress.com
>>> > Granma International:
> http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>>> > _
>>> >
>>> > table with 2 columns and 6 rows
>>> > Subj:
>>> > [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
>>> > Date:
>>> > 9/8/2009 10:48:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>>> > From:
>>> >
> cherryjam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > Reply-to:
>>> >
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > To:
>>> >
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > Sent from the Internet
>>> > (Details)
>>> > table end
>>> >
>>> > Evan, I've wondered about how that algorithm works too, because
>>> > of the children's books I've proofed that were erroneously marked
>>> > as adult by the algorithm. I'd bet part of it is based on
>>> > Bookshare useing a dictionary of words that can be considered
>>> > adult (with some contexting built in, I'd guess). The final
>>> > designation of adult comes about by using a weighting of the
>>> > number of times words/terms/phrases appear factored against the
>>> > total number of words in a book.. So if you have a children's
>>> > book with very few words, and one of the 'suspect' words appears,
>>> > although it could be in a totally innocent context, bam! The
>>> > children's book is going to get rated as adult. I had that
>>> > happen a few months ago with a board book I was proofreading!
>>> >
>>> > Just guessing here, of course. smile.
>>> >
>>> > Judy s.
>>> >
>>> > EVAN REESE wrote:
>>> >> What determines adult content is ultimately the proofreader.
>>> Bookshare's
>>> >> computer can mark a book either Adult or not, using some secret
>>> >> algorithm that staff refuses to divulge to us, but the proofreader
>>> can
>>> >> change the Bookshare computer's choice if he/she feels that a change
>>> is
>>> >> justified. It used to be either the submitter and/or the proofreader,
>>> >> but Bookshare took that choice away from submitters and seems to have
>>> no
>>> >> inclination to give it back.
>>> >
>>> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
>>> >
> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a
>>> list of
>>> > available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line..
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> Soronel Haetir
>>>
> soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx
>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
>>>
> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list
>>> of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject
> line.
>>>
>>
>>
> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of
> available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
>
> block quote end
>
> block quote end
>
>


-- 
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx
 To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line.  To get a list of 
available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.




      

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