[bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent recently added to the collection that are really only good

There are a lot of them that you can tell they were typos. There are 
all kinds of typos in books. If I question it at all, I do not make 
the change.
Cindy Lou Ray. Each day is a new adventure.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lora" <loravara@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:40 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent recently added to 
the collection that are really only good


As much as those things bug me, too, I want to know what the publisher
published, not what we changed it to.  After all, it says something 
about a
publisher if the editing of a book was poor.  More to the point, there 
are
some authors with such peculiar writing styles that it'd be hard to 
know
just what they intended to write.  William S. Burroughs is an example.

Even though those things leap out at me, too, I dodge out of the way, 
and
let them go merrily by. <Smile>


-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of eric troup
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:25 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent recently added to 
the
collection that are really only good

I suppose you're right, but I have a real hard time not correcting 
things
like "He begin to notice he was sweating as the lights dimmed."  I 
know
we're not supposed to fix it, but dammit, that's supposed to be "began 
to
notice!"  Don't get me wrong, I don't fix sentence structure or 
anything
intrusive like that, but there are times when it was clearly an 
editor's
oops, and I do have a hard time not fixing those.  They jump out at me 
like
muggers on a darkly-lit street.

On 17 Apr 2008, at 10:31, Lora wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Like you, I don't do a global find and replace, because that can
> result in new and interesting errors that need to be fixed later. 
> But
> like you, when I find an error, I do a find, and replace things on a
> one at a time basis.
>
> Yes, we can spell check as we read.  JAWS will announce spelling
> errors.
> You just need to make sure it's not announcing grammar errors, too, 
> as
> that can become annoying.  Many novels don't quite pass the grammar
> check, and it reports lots of false errors.  Besides, we're not here
> to correct grammar.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Grandma
> Cindy
> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:50 PM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent recently added 
> to
> the collection that are really only good
>
> My method is slightly different from yours, though I've thought of
> doing a spell-check first. However, I don't. I read the book with 
> the
> spell- check on--I don't know if blind people can do that or if it
> would be too annoying.
> I correct as I go, and when I find an incorrect word that us 
> actually
> a real word but not the right one, I do a find and replace for
> others--not a global replace, though; I've been caught too many 
> times
> having changed things that shouldn't have been changed and having to
> go back and correct them and I've learned my lesson. When I've
> finished reading the book, I do a final spell-check, and usually I 
> do
> find a few--very few--words that I've missed--and I do a final
> page-number check.
>
> I don't validate indices or bibliographies, but I don't delete them,
> either.
> I offer to do them later if a reader would like me to.
>
> G.Cindy
>
>
>> Hi Judy and Others,
>>
>> I am always surprised when I download an excellent book and find 
>> that
>> it's definitely not.  Although these books are frustrating
>> discoveries, I think the majority of Excellent books are deserving 
>> of
>> that rating.
>>
>> Getting a book up to that rating is a joint effort, though.  Like
>> you, I appreciate the scanners' comments, explaining the validation
>> steps that they followed before submitting the book.  It doesn't
>> change my approach to validating, but it informs me of how much 
>> time
>> my validation process is likely to take.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I begin by searching for the number 1, in
>> combinations such as  1 1' 1. 1? And so forth.
>>
>> I then search for random characters that typically don't belong in
>> the
>> book:
>> caret, accent, tilde, percent, pound, and so on.  By finding these
>> and eliminating them, if appropriate, I get an overall glimpse of 
>> how
>> much validating needs to be done.
>>
>> Spell-check or not to spell-check:  I then make a determination on
>> whether I'll run the spellchecker.  For most novels and nonfiction, 
>> I
>> will; but for books such as Buddhism in Action, where I'm battling
>> two spelling problems, lots of Hindi words and lots of 
>> scanographical
>> errors that resulted in actual words, I've determined that it isn't
>> worth it to run spell check.
>> I'll rely on my full reading of the book to catch errors.
>>
>> I then scan for common scanos, such as die for the and comer for
>> corner.  If I don't find lots of these, I figure it's a good sign.
>>
>> I usually then start reading the book.  Since I'm going to read
>> straight through, this is when I check things like whether all the
>> pages are there, whether lines are missing, whether certain text is
>> garbled, etc.
>>
>> I've found that there are errors that are better caught with 
>> speech,
>> and other errors better caught with Braille.
>>
>> Example:  One excellent book I downloaded might have read all right
>> with Braille, but was a nightmare when I read it with speech.  This
>> was a book I wanted to read, and one I did read, even though there
>> weren't spaces after quotation marks, resulting in things like, "I
>> hate this,"she said.  (Funny thing is, JAWS reads this just fine, 
>> but
>> my Pacmate tried to run this and she together because there was no
>> space.  It did this all through the book, because neither the 
>> scanner
>> or validator went in and put spaces after the quotation marks. 
>> This
>> is the kind of thing we need to find good ways to catch.
>>
>> Finally, if the book has indices or other extras, I make a
>> determination as to whether they can be salvaged.  I think I've 
>> only
>> ever deleted one index, which was very nearly garbled beyond
>> recognition.
>> It was for a very short
>> book, and I felt it didn't add much to the book.
>>
>> As I'm uploading, I review everything that will be visible when the
>> book goes into the collection.  For instance, I check the short and
>> long synopses, title, author, publisher, copyright date, ISBN, and
>> the selected categories and adult rating etc., to make sure it 
>> looks
>> good.
>>
>> I'm not saying I won't miss things, but this is the rough process I
>> use.
>>
>> One of my frustrations is when a scanner uploads a book and marks 
>> it
>> as excellent, and then I open the book and it's clearly not.  I
>> downloaded one recently where I found lots of missing words or
>> garbled lines, and I knew I wouldn't be able to correct it easily. 
>> I
>> simply returned the book to step one, as I figured it'd take more
>> effort to fix it than I felt I could manage.  I guess I could see 
>> how
>> it might have gotten an excellent rating, as there were good-sized
>> chunks of very readable text, but when it went bad, it was really
>> bad.  I'd appreciate an honest rating.
>> The book probably
>> deserved good, which at least would have warned potential 
>> validators
>> that it would require a fair bit of work.
>>
>> May I ask scanners how they determine whether to rate their
>> submissions as good or excellent?
>>
>> And I'd love to see Bookshare scan the book on initial submission,
>> and offer a potential rating.  Does it do this yet?  I know it's
>> something we've talked about in the past.
>>
>> Finally, I'd love to see a way to leave a comment as to why a
>> validator returned a book to step one.  This could include comments
>> such as: Frequent Hindi words; not familiar enough to validate ... 
>> Or
>> has lots of pictures that will require interpretation by a sighted
>> person ... Or even ... This book has too many errors for me to
>> validate at this time.
>>
>> I hope there's value in some of this.  Mostly, it's just me 
>> thinking
>> publicly.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Judy s.
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:08 PM
>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Books rated excellent recently added to 
>> the
>> collection that are really only good
>>
>> Let me add my 'ditto' to the complaints posted here today about 
>> books
>> entering the collection recently that aren't up to snuff.
>>
>> I was just crabbing off-list to Grandma Cindy about this last week.
>> I've downloaded several books this last month that had just entered
>> the collection which had many obvious errors, but were rated
>> excellent.  I've certainly missed stuff myself when validating, 
>> even
>> though I read through every single book I validate, but the errors 
>> I
>> found in downloaded books were things like chapter after chapter 
>> with
>> "1"
>> instead of "I" in the text.
>>
>> As a validator, I appreciate scanners like Shelley and Mayrie (and
>> many
>> others) who put in their comments whether or not they've read the
>> scan through, if they've spell-checked it, stripped headings,
>> verified page numbers and the like.
>>  I'm much more likely to download a book from the step 1 list if 
>> that
>> information is available, because I know what to expect and can 
>> judge
>> how much time I will have to allocate to give that book the 
>> attention
>> it might need.
>>
>> Judy s.
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> ***WISH LIST (CALLED REQUESTED ADDITIONS TO THE BOOKSHARE
> COLLECTION)IS AVAILABLE AT
> http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/Book_Requests.htm
> http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/
> http://studentpages.alma.edu/~07jmyate/book_requests.htm
>
> A LIST OF BOOKS CURRENTLY BEING SCANNED IS AVAILABLE AT
> http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/scanning.html
>
> Jake's site for useful links: http://www.jbrownell.com/bkslinks.html
>
>
>
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