[bcab] Re: Wineyes Demos

Hi,

I checked through the verbosity, and there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it telling me that the next thing it is going to say is the date, etc. If it's possible, they haven't explained themselves very well. It was me that convinced RNIB of Outlook's accessibility right back in the year 2000. Even then, Jaws did a reasonable job of working in the calendar if you did a bit of messing about with views, and now it is much better. In my view, Window Eyes's support for Outlook is about where Jaws was a couple of years ago. They have, however, caught up with Jaws in very many other ways, and it always has been more stable.

If I were starting out right now and needed to use Outlook, Jaws would still win, hands down, and for using XP Home, Jaws still wins out overall, but I presume Jaws Standard won't be the one that we need for Vista!

Cheers
Dave

----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Hartgen" <Brian.Hartgen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:55 PM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Wineyes Demos


Hi Dave

I wrote a lengthy message to the Access UK list about my impressions of
Window-Eyes 6.0 public beta one, and one of the things I talked about in
there was the usability of the calendar using the "special" Window-Eyes
interface.  In particular, I mentioned the chattiness within the
interface in respect of navigating appointments.

Steve Nutt very usefully replied to the effect that you can reduce this
extra speech within the verbosity, but I have not had the opportunity to
try it yet.

I am glad you like the JAWS functionality of the calendar though, as I
can say I had a reasonable amount to do with its implementation and
functionality as of JAWS 6.0 when the support was significantly improved
upon.  From an employment perspective, two of the things which often get
overlooked with JAWS are that:
A. You can press a keystroke to get the status of all the possible
atendees of a potential meeting when it is being created.  I do not know
if window-eyes can do that but I am sure Steve will let us know.
B. You can view two calendars at once, such as a shared calendar on an
exchange server and a local calendar.  This is very useful for
comparison purposes.  I cannot test this with window-eyes because when I
press the hot key to invoke their special interface in the shared
calendar, I get informed I am not in the calendar.  But even so, this
would require two instances of the custom built dialog open at once and
I am not sure if that is possible.

Brian Hartgen


-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Dave Taylor
Sent: 31 October 2006 12:01
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: Wineyes Demos

Hi,

In Jaws I can very quickly browse through each individual appointment
without having lots of extraneous speech, or I can move by day etc. In
the WE interface, I find you have to hear an awful lot before you can
get through all the information, and I can't find any way of changing
the verbosity in there. I find the Outlook views so customisable that I
can get whatever interface I want really quickly. I agree though, it
really is what you're used to.

Cheers
Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Wineyes Demos


Hi Dave,

Sounds like you haven't thoroughly learned the WE calendar
application. 
It
is more efficient, because you can set your appointments by day, week,


work
week, month, or even year, which I believe you can't even do in
Outlook,
setting the range to year I mean. Also, the radio button stays where
you
left it, so if your favourite is day, then put the radio button there,
and 
it will be remembered.

I think it is what you are used to with JAWS. But the problem with
the
Outlook calendar itself, is there is almost no MSAA information that
any
screen reader can grab hold of. So in this instance, I am happy with
the 
WE
interface.

By the way, it is not a WE calendar, it is only giving you an
interface to
the Outlook calendar, so of course, you have to have Outlook running,
for 
WE
to get the data.

Personally, in my business day to day use, I think it is the best
interface
to the Outlook calendar bar none, but that's just me.  I think this
simply
because with any other screen reader, you have to make sure you are in
the
right view of the calendar before you get relevant information,
whereas a 
quick Insert-C gives me what I want.

All the best
--
Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind computer users.
Telephone Low-call:  08452 606 277
International:  +44(0)1438 742286,
Fax:  +44(0)1438 759589
mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938,
Email:  mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Dave Taylor
Sent: 30 October 2006 19:41
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: Wineyes Demos

Hi,

I don't like the calendar application. I don't like the idea of having
to
use a separate application and I don't like that you have to both
start
Outlook and the WE Calendar application. I also do like a flexibility
on
how I view appointments. I don't like browsing each day to be told how 

many
appointments I have, I just want to cut straight to the chase and her
the
next appointment. Yes, it's usable, but it really isn't as efficient
as 
the
shark,key.

Cheers
Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 7:26 PM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Wineyes Demos


Hi Dave,

What are you saying here? Are you saying Outlook 2003 is Wineyes'
major
downfall? I use it all day, every day. What problems are you
having? 

All the best
--
Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind computer users.
Telephone Low-call:  08452 606 277
International:  +44(0)1438 742286,
Fax:  +44(0)1438 759589
mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938,
Email:  mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Dave Taylor
Sent: 30 October 2006 17:35
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: Wineyes Demos

Hi, I found Viavoice to be much more like Jaws Eloquence than is
Wineyes 
Eloquence! It's very weird, I put Viavoice on in preference because I
prefered it.

Now I've only had a very quick look so far, but Wineyes is definitely
competitive now, and I'm a well known Jaws fan.  I've had a quick
play in
Word, Excell, MSN, on the internet and in Outlook 2003, which was its 

only
major downfall so far!

Cheers
Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 4:57 PM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Wineyes Demos


Hi Dave,

Interesting. I have both WE and JFW on my system here, and there
really 
is
no difference in the two Eloquences.  Are you sure that you don't
have 
Viavoice selected?  That to me is truly horrible.

All the best
--
Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind computer users.
Telephone Low-call:  08452 606 277
International:  +44(0)1438 742286,
Fax:  +44(0)1438 759589
mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938,
Email:  mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On 
Behalf
Of Dave Taylor
Sent: 30 October 2006 16:50
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: Wineyes Demos

Hi, The Wineyes version of Eloquence has very cut down sound
compared to 
others. It shoundsh like itch hash a shlur! that'sh all!

Cheersh

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 4:43 PM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Wineyes Demos


Hi Dave,

Go on then, I'll bite. What's wrong with their version of
Eloquence? 
At
least it is not locked to Window-Eyes only, but the JAWS one is
locked 
to
JAWS only.

I will investigate the demo restriction you speak of.

All the best
--
Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind computer users.
Telephone Low-call:  08452 606 277
International:  +44(0)1438 742286,
Fax:  +44(0)1438 759589
mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938,
Email:  mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On 
Behalf
Of Dave Taylor
Sent: 30 October 2006 15:49
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: Wineyes Demos

Hi, I have indeed tried to change it. I've hit enter to get the
dialogue
box
and all that happens is the menu closes! It's true in both versions
as 
I've
just tried 6.0 as well.  I hate their version of eloquence too!
Thank 
god
I've got viavoice on here!

Cheers
Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 3:31 PM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Wineyes Demos


Hi Dave,

Are you sure that the demo is locked in beginner mode? Have you
tried
changing it in the Global menu? I will check this out with GW
Micro 
if
so.

Thanks.

All the best
--
Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind computer users.
Telephone Low-call:  08452 606 277
International:  +44(0)1438 742286,
Fax:  +44(0)1438 759589
mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938,
Email:  mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On 
Behalf
Of Dave Taylor
Sent: 30 October 2006 14:53
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Wineyes Demos

Hi,

Well, a bit of playing around with what is supposed to be a fully
featured
demo reveals that it isn't! To get to most of the options, you
have to 
be
in
advanced mode, and the demo is locked in beginner mode! Oh well!
It 
isn't
just FS is it!

Cheers
Dave

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