[bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream

Hi steve.

yes I know you can use the call key for searching but I wasn't thinking 
straight as of course you can use the star key to bring up a list of symbols 
once you are in the find box.

so doing a search for the # character should indeed be possible.

Regards

Graham
Graham Page
Home Phone: 0207 265 9493
Mobile: 07753 607980
Fax:  0870 706 2773
Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: gabriel_mcbird

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:54 AM
Subject: [bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream


Hi Graham,

Searching is perfectly possible on both the stream and on a mobile phone.
For Talks, just press the call key. You may be surprised.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Graham Page
Sent: Sunday 28 June 2009 18:50
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream

Hi Isaac.

I only know about Talks for sure but Talks will let you move heading by
heading for sure but I do not know if it will let you move to the next
heading at the same level like a screenreader will. but this method would
let you jump between articles.

Using a word processor or text editor you can do a search currently for ##
which will take you to the next article.  this will work on  PPC but to be
honest I cannot understand why anyone would not use the ATechnic news reader

on a PC, once they know how of course.

On a mobile or the Victor Stream, searching for ## is a problem and so an
html file with headings would actually work well for both products.

Regards

Graham
Graham Page
Home Phone: 0207 265 9493
Mobile: 07753 607980
Fax:  0870 706 2773
Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: gabriel_mcbird

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Isaac Porat" <isaac@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 12:59 PM
Subject: [bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream


Hi Steve and all

Please educate me as I don't use (and do not want to use) my mobile phone
beyond telephone calls.
If I mark a publication with heading H1, H2 etc, can a screen reader on the
phone jump easily between these headings like say JAWS? Is searching with
text an efficient way to navigate a publication?
Do you need links on the page from an index to articles or section or not?
Are there many people on this list who read content such as say text books
using their mobile phones?

Regards
Isaac

-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 28 June 2009 11:25
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream

Hi Isaac,

Whoever gave you the information at TNAUK is incorrect, since I myself
requested HTML, so there is at least two of us.

I don't care too much about an article index, but you could have one at
heading level 1, then the sections at heading level 2, then subs at 3, down
to articles.

A phone can search for a text string, as can the Stream now, so I favour
HTML over XML.  However, XML would do me fine, since I could read them on
the Stream.  Anything is better than the clumsy method they have now, where
if a new user pushes enter on a .doc file that is really a .txt file, it
gets open in Word. This is absurd nowadays.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Isaac Porat
Sent: Sunday 28 June 2009 09:51
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream

Hi Steve

Since I wrote the last message, I made some enquiries and it seems that the
stream will support just the dtbook portion of the Daisy standard (the
useful one in this case) if it is put in the 'text' folder of the Stream.
This will be my preferred option as being XML it will be much more robust
than HTML.

I enquired and TNAUK have received just one request in a couple of years for
HTML support for mobiles and the man enquired did not even have a suitable
phone for the purpose himself.

Nevertheless I am interested to provide support for mobiles if possible.

What will be your ideal HTML type file in a single file.  Will just heading
tags for each level (section) suffice? Or your ideal document will be some
sort of index at the top with links to the articles?  If so can you go back
to a previous link in a single document? With a mobile screen reader?

Regards
Isaac

-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 27 June 2009 12:33
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream

Hi Isaac,

Knew you'd get there in the end <Smile>. HTML is more universal than Daisy
and would be a much better way.  Just make Atechnic throw the whole
publication into one HTML file and I will be happy.  Better yet, persuade
TNAUK to Email plain HTML files within a zip file to keep it small.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Isaac Porat
Sent: Friday 26 June 2009 20:58
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream

Hi Tony

I think you are right, more than  one file is required.  The book part of
the spec is very well written but the other files in terms of functionality
in this situation serve no purpose.
Transferring more than one file per publication is added complication for
users as they need to be in separate folders.  I also calculated that the
Daisy implementation takes up about four times the size of the original file
without a single benefit.

So I am inclined to go back to HTML.  In fact the Stream accepts a skeleton
HTML with only heading tags to work out the structure (exactly like Daisy).
This approach has the added benefit that the overhead in term of file size
are minimal.

Regards
Isaac

-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Tony Dart
Sent: 26 June 2009 10:32
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream

Hello
Thanks for info, Steve and Isaac.

BookShare does use 4 files - the navigation control, the actual book, the
spine (which Ithink is just a list of all the other files in the set) and a
SMIL file, which surprised me. I think you may find the NCC obligatory, not
because you can't combine the information in it with the book, but because
Daisy demands it and therefore the Stream might do so. Be really interested
to know how you get on with this - it may be a good route for the On Line
Library!

Regards
Tony

----- Original Message -----
From: "Isaac Porat" <isaac@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:23 PM
Subject: [bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream


> Hi Tony
>
> As Steve said, the stream can play text Daisy.  I try to find out
> which flavour.  I am hoping that it requires only a single file, not
> like the bookshare.org books which if I remember correctly contain
> four files per book - totally unnecessary for the purpose.
>
> Regards
> Isaac
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> Of Tony Dart
> Sent: 25 June 2009 10:40
> To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream
>
> Hello
>
> Are you thinking of Daisy files with or without speech? If without,
> does this mean that the Stream can play text-only Daisy?
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Isaac Porat" <isaac@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:49 AM
> Subject: [bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream
>
>
> > Hi Laurent
> > X-archive-position: 4756
> > X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
> > Sender: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Errors-to: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > X-original-sender: isaac@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Precedence: normal
> > Reply-to: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > List-help: <mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=help>
> > List-unsubscribe: <bcab-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=unsubscribe>
> > List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
> > List-Id: bcab <bcab.freelists.org>
> > X-List-ID: bcab <bcab.freelists.org>
> > List-subscribe: <bcab-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=subscribe>
> > List-owner: <mailto:secretary@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > List-post: <mailto:bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > List-archive: <http://www.freelists.org/archives/bcab>
> > X-list: bcab
> >
> > The a-technic reader was written by my colleague John Batty.
> > The files that the reader generates are written to the temp
> > directory so they are not flushed out every time you exit the
> > browser but this is
done
> > automatically by the system from time to time.  This behavior is
> > useful
so
> > that the files do not have to be generated again each time you start
> > the reader with the same publication.
> >
> > I am thinking perhaps to generate Daisy files instead of the HTML as
these
> > potentially will be more robust and give more information to the stream.
> >
> > If you are interested in testing this (I have no Stream myself),
> > please contact me at:
> > speakon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > Regards
> > Isaac
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On
> Behalf
> > Of Laurent Cadet de Fontenay
> > Sent: 24 June 2009 18:56
> > To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream
> >
> > Hi Isaac!
> >
> > Thanks for your comprehensive reply and thanks also for all the work
> you're
> > putting into developping really useful free applications.
> >
> > Yes, I completely get your point regarding the types of HTML files
> > that could be used on the Stream, where navigation would be by
> > various levels
> of
> > headers instead of clicking on links.  This is pretty much what I
thought
> of
> > when I wrote the first message to the list.
> >
> > On another tack, does the Atechnik newsreader clean up after itself
> > by deleting the hundreds of HTML files created after exiting the
browser?
> >
> > Thanks again and all of the best!
> >
> > Laurent
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On
> Behalf
> > Of Isaac Porat
> > Sent: 23 June 2009 20:49
> > To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [bcab] Re: TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream
> >
> > Hi Laurent
> >
> > I am glad you enjoy reading TNAUK publications using SpeakOn and the
> > a-technic reader.
> > Wearing my other hat, I am involved with TNAUK (as a volunteer) on
> > the
IT
> > side.
> >
> > First you can get the publications with a '.txt' file extension;
> > just
call
> > reception.
> > This option is not requested very often (this facility was available
> > for about three years or so).
> > If you have any problems, speak to the IT department.
> >
> > Tony explained the background for the use of the 'doc' file
> > extension by default apparently it was there before adopted by
> > Windows (long before
my
> > time).
> > So why to keep it unless you are an historian? The reason is that
> > there
> are
> > various devices and software out there (some quite old) which expect
> > the '.doc' file extension so changing the default file extension
> > will create
> as
> > many problems as it will solve.
> >
> > TNAUK supports the BookCourier - old now but still used by many of
> > the readers.  I can think  about four different devices excluding of
> > mobile telephones to do a similar job.
> >    Supporting is a matter of resources it is not just a matter of
> supplying
> > the various formats, this is probably the easy bit.  Readers usually
> expect
> > support on how to use the different devices and pieces of software
> > they
> are
> > using.
> > You will be amazed by the number of people still using a word
> > processor
or
> a
> > text editor to read their publications.
> >
> > And about the stream...
> > As mentioned with the current format, you can navigate using Page Up
> > and Down to move between article, not ideal but not bad.
> >
> > The next version of SpeakOn (in a couple of months or so) will be
> > about support for hardware devices such as the stream and I hope to
> > create a converter to HTML so that you can get full navigation on
> > the stream. By
> the
> > way while the stream can handle fairly complex HTML files, the ideal
> format
> > for navigation for it is not the type which will be useful on say a
> browser
> > on a mobile phone where links will be expected.
> > As to the suggestion of using the a-technic HTML output,
> > unfortunately
> this
> > is not practical as the reader breaks the publications to hundreds
> > of
> files;
> > the stream expects one HTML file (and even if it could handle
> > multiple
> files
> > this will not be a suitable solution for a typical user).
> >
> > As to the services offered by TNAUK (and if they move with the
> > times)
> these
> > are:
> >
> > For eText:
> >
> > - Download publications from the website.
> > - Received publications by email.
> > - Open the publications received by either methods above with the
> a-technic
> > reader and search and navigate the publications using your browser.
> > - Use SpeakOn to browse all 85 or so publication, download, unzip
> > and
play
> > these with one click.
> >
> > Audio publications:
> >
> > - Download directly from the website.
> > - Subscribe using your favourites podcast catcher.
> > - Use SpeakOn to browse all 130 or so publications and navigate and
stream
> > article by article.
> > - Do the same as above  using the Sonata web radio provided by
> > wireless
> for
> > the blind.
> >
> > And of course Daisy CD and the good old tapes still favoured by the
> > vast majority of users.
> >
> > And the annual costs for the digital publications:
> >
> > - £40 for all 85 or so eText publications.
> > - 60£ for all 130 or so audio publications.
> > - £80 (I think) for both.
> >
> > So the above should suit most people - the cost covers less than 50%
> > of running the charity - please support TNAUK by subscribing.
> >
> > Regards
> > Isaac
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On
> Behalf
> > Of Laurent Cadet de Fontenay
> > Sent: 21 June 2009 17:07
> > To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [bcab] TNAUK Text Files on the Victor Reader Stream
> >
> > Hi all!
> >
> > I'd like to know of any tips and tricks you guys may use when
> > reading
> TNAUK
> > text files on portable devices such as the Victor Reader Stream.
> >
> > It would be wonderful if there could be a small application, like
> > the Atechnik Newsreader, that could convert a TNAUK newspaper to a
> > HTML file with headings at various levels to denote sections and
> > articles.  Or
maybe
> > even into Daisy format.
> >
> > On the PC, I alternate between using SpeakOn and the Atechnik
> > newsreader
> for
> > reading my TNAUK files, which I find really fantastic, so thanks Isaac!
> >
> > Looking forward to hearing your views on this one.
> >
> > Stay well
> > Laurent
> >
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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06/21/09
> > 05:53:00
> >
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