[bcab] Re: Residual vision was Accessibility considerations

• From: "Dorothy Ingram-Gorban" <dorothy.ingram-gorban@xxxxxxxxx>
• To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
• Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:26:28 -0000

To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 6:13 PM
Subject: [bcab] Residual vision was Accessibility considerations


   Dorothy,

Your post made me think...

Most of the JAWS users I know do have some residual vision but have in the
end moved over to total speech reliance.  I remember 3 years ago when I
first lost my sight how I tried desperately and rather pathetically to
decipher a screen with thick glasses and bizarre colour contrast and letters
a foot high etc.  Life is a lot easier now that I have gone over to the dark
side.

Battery life on my laptop is pretty good now the screen is switched off as
well...

Karl

To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 4:28 PM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations


Thank you Charles so zoomtext is made by the  name you mention. screen
readers are for people for  all  grades of visual impairment.  As I said I
know several  places such as schools for the blind and  other  Charities who
used to use Magic to do what Zoomtext now does much better. They all however
use Jaws as well I don't know if Zoomtext works with Wineyes  or Dolphin.
There some totally blind people who do not bother with a  Monitor at all if
that is what you mean?  Most of us  probably  use any residual vision we
have and a Screenreader. I only need Lunar for 1 reason that is to invert
the screen to High contrast black so I can use white font. I am
experimenting with the magnification at times.  it helps in small doses.
Magic did most extraordinary things it did not work well with Jaws. Think of
it as a sort of assistant for Jaws. I rather think your Zoomtext may do the
same. Lunar not invasive.  it cost£250  but it makes life bearable for me. I
do like to see pictures as well.  if only as through a glass darkly.  I
often shut Lunar off for this. If the photographs are  not in too much
detail and if I know what they are I can after a while see them. I think
this is due to the brain filling in what it knows should be there. some days
I am quite good at getting a fix on a picture other days not.. I expect it
is the same for you. I am not using any central vision at all I have to
think to see, I cannot explain it any other way. Don't forget up until a few
years ago I was using a typewriter taking photos myself.  never thinking I
would lose what I had left. The original damage was done years ago but I
kept enough to read print and of course I had no reason to think another
mishap would happen.   This is why I need a really good scanner to be
independent  because there may not always be another person around another
half or family member. I am scanning carbon copies this is very hard indeed.
but even if I only get the gist of what it says I can make a decision myself
and not have to ask Dorothy.

To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 3:47 PM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations


Hi

Zoomtext is made by AI squared. It seems to read in whatever mode or colour
combination. I also use a French speech engine for one of the profiles.

I am not a technical expert, but I thought screen readers did not need a
screen. The software just reads the electronic text regardless of font size,
colour or style.

I am sure someone will know.

Kind regards

Charles Crisp

See our holiday home website:
www.thecrisps.co.uk/french-house <http://www.thecrisps.co.uk/french-house>



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-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Dorothy Ingram-Gorban
Sent: 26 February 2007 14:51
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations

Charles Dolphin or supernova is 1 of the 3 true screen readers in the world

of the Vips As yet I don't know what apple can do. so you have Jaws made by
Freedom and  Supernova made by Dolphin a British company. and windowEyes and

I forget  quite who makes that Steve nutt would know.  I do not know much
about Zoomtext only that people seemed to move  to it who formerly used
Magic is a Freedom Product. I have forgotten who makes your product is that
also Freedom? I have also heard of a product called  something like AI
squared. Now I do not know if Zoom and A I squared are similar?  I do not
know about Wineyes if it works in high contrast black and white I  am told
Supernova does. I know Jaws does not Dorothy.

To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations


Hi Karina

Light text on dark is probably right for plain text, but for more graphic
layouts the conversion may not be so successful. I don't know Dolphin
software or quite what it does. Zoomtext has a reading mode on the fly which
converts the text in whatever form into black background with a selected
colour text font. This can then be further enlarged for reading.

Other colour combinations particularly those with colour 'overlays' such as
green, yellow or blue can help with particular eye conditions.

Personally I do not attempt to read from the screen, it is quicker to use
the reader.
The biggest fault with the reader is that it will not read 'dialogue boxes',
which is strange because it can be forced to speak using a 'speak it' tool
which works most of the time.


Kind regards

Charles Crisp

See our holiday home website:
www.thecrisps.co.uk/french-house <http://www.thecrisps.co.uk/french-house>



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-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Karina Gregory
Sent: 26 February 2007 01:57
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations

Hi Charles,
I would have thought that light text on a darker background would be the
better option for most people, particularly as this would reduce glare.  I'm
sure that others will put me right if I'm wrong.  I don't think there's ever
going to be a solution that can meet everyone.  I suppose that the other
option would be to change the colour preferences within your magnification
softwae, but I don't know about others but sometimes this can be very
confusing as it changes the whole screen and sometimes makes it difficult to
differentiate between the menu bars and other screen content.  I personally
prefer to use the inverted colours offered by Lunar as this identifies the
menus as well as the text much better.  There are some other alternatives
e.g. yellow on blue, light green on dark green, but I find these quite
difficult.  Do other magnification users agree with what Im saying about
being able to differentiate between the menu bars and the other text?
Karina

To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 10:46 AM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations


Hi all

I've come late to this discussion.

One of the problems with screen colours which are fixed to any standard is
that some eye conditions are variable and one set of colour and contrast may
not suit everyone.
Someone mentioned the BBC and they have the 'My web, my way' web site at

http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/

This contains advice on how to change the screen colours and contrast for
individual preference.

Perhaps it is more important to have a standard that will allow all screen
readers perform better, and we all know how difficult this can be.


Kind regards

Charles Crisp

See our holiday home website:
www.thecrisps.co.uk/french-house <http://www.thecrisps.co.uk/french-house>



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-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Léonie Watson
Sent: 24 February 2007 22:21
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations

Karen,

   You're absolutely right about the fact that many agencies are
unscrupulous about the quality of service they deliver. It's one of the many
reasons that reading PAS 78 is such a good idea:
http://www.drc-gb.org/library/website_accessibility_guidance/pas_78.aspx

   For people who are commissioning websites, but know little about web
accessibility, PAS 78 is a great place to start understanding the basics. It
even includes a checklist of questions to ask prospective agencies before
you hire them.

   Additionally, it talks about the need for ensuring that the level of
accessibility required is explicitly mentioned in the contract you have with
the agency. That way, if it comes to light at a later point that your
website is not accessible, you have legal recourse to resolve the problem.


Regards,
Léonie.

________________________________

From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Karen Packham
Sent: 24 February 2007 21:03
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations


I sometimes help organisations with their websites, and sadly I know that
some of them (or more probably their web agencies) will put the
accessibility logos on their sites because they believe certain testing
tools are all they need to use, and they don't actually read the
accessibility guidelines.

Others say they are "working towards accessibility", so they say it's
cheaper for them to have the logo on the website from the start, or else
they will have to pay the agency to add it later. And others are simply
misled by their agencies completely.

Colour contrast is definitely one thing that inexperienced organisations are
surprised to hear about, so I'd suggest you contact them to explain the
issue and ask them to confirm when they will fix it, as this nudge may be
all that is needed.

What would be good is some way of publicising the names of agencies that do
mislead their clients in this respect. The odd mistake is understandable,
but what some of them get away with is outrageous. In the end their clients
are the ones who end up taking all the flack, whereas the agency is
invisible and only beholden to their client, who will have trusted them to
have (and paid for) the skills that the organisation lacked.

Hope this helps and sorry for the rant!

Karen

________________________________

From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Vince Thacker
Sent: 24 February 2007 18:49
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations


Karina, couldn't agree more.  The colour combination you mention sounds
ridiculous.

Contrast is indeed an issue, mentioned in many accessibility contexts.

For example, this is from w3.org's section, "Techniques For Accessibility:
Evaluation And Repair Tools"

"Checkpoint 2.2 - Ensure that foreground and background color combinations
provide sufficient contrast when viewed by someone having color deficits or
when viewed on a black and white screen "

The contrast values can indeed be tested by looking at the numbers or
numeric equivalents of names used for colors. So it's pretty easy to
auto-detect this problem.

I've used the Vision Australia Web Accessibility Toolbar for a long time.
One of the tests included there is a colour contrast test. It's not
difficult to carry this out, so really there's no excuse for getting it
wrong. It helps if you know that the red, green and blue can each range from
0 to 255, and that the hex digits for those are 00 and FF. That's about all
there is to it.

Sadly, I've come across sites put together by blind people who haven't got
it anywhere near right. One had a green background (00FF00), red text
(FF0000) and blue links (0000ff). Well, the FF digits give it away straight
away. The text would be invisible in black and white, and in colour it would
at the very least look yucky.

I don't know for sure, but I'd have thought even automated tests like
WebXact would fail pages with poor colour contrasts.

Of course, it's not as simple as that if you are designing a site for
dyslexics or people who have eye conditions like M D where they get a lot of
glare. the contrast values could be fine, but the site could be a pain to
read. I know of what I speak, believe me.

Vince.

To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 5:50 PM
Subject: [bcab] Accessibility considerations

Hi all,

I've just come across a website that claims to have WAI - AA and
WCAG 1.0 having a symbol in the corner of ths creen.  The thing that I don't
agree with is the colour contrast - white text on a light blue background.
My question is that when websites are tested by an accessibility
website/program for accessibility, is colour contrast taken into
consideration?  Surely the colour schemes to be used can be picked up from
the code.  If it isn't already taken into consideration, maybe it could be i
nthe future by specifying to the accessibility tool what is good contrast
and what is bad contrast.  Do you follow what I'm saying?  For example, if
the tool was told that white text on a light blue background was not good
contrast then it woud be able to reject websites that were accessed using
this method.

I'm interested in hearing the views of others on this topic.

Thanks.

Karina

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• References:
  • [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations
    • From: Charles Crisp
  • [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations
    • From: Dorothy Ingram-Gorban
  • [bcab] Residual vision was Accessibility considerations
    • From: Karl Proud

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