[bcab] Re: Residual vision was Accessibility considerations

I know that this is a bit off topic, but this is one thing that I have never
been able to understand, and that is - if people have got even a little bit
of sight, why don't they make the most of what they've got instead of giving
the impression that they've got no sight at all?  I think that it can be
very misleading to sighted people and that this is possible where people
have got the impression that most people who are registered blind have no
sight at all which is wrong as a lot of registered blind people do have at
least a small amount of sight and I just can't understand why they don't
seem to want to make the most of it.  To bring this discussion back on
topic, it could be argued that software developers are designing their
applications solely around speech applications, as they just assume that if
someone is blind they can't see.  I have got a small amount of sight, and I
have found it very difficult to trust JAWS alone without magnification.  I'm
interested to hear the views of others on this list about this subject, but
I think to overcome the whole issue of accessibility we need to more
accurately educate the people who are developing things for our use as it
seems that once someone is registered blind, that's it, they psychologically
have no sight atll but I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong about this.
I'm not saying that it's not traumatic though.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karl Proud" <karl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 6:13 PM
Subject: [bcab] Residual vision was Accessibility considerations


>     Dorothy,
>
> Your post made me think...
>
> Most of the JAWS users I know do have some residual vision but have in the
> end moved over to total speech reliance.  I remember 3 years ago when I
> first lost my sight how I tried desperately and rather pathetically to
> decipher a screen with thick glasses and bizarre colour contrast and
letters
> a foot high etc.  Life is a lot easier now that I have gone over to the
dark
> side.
>
> Battery life on my laptop is pretty good now the screen is switched off as
> well...
>
> Karl
>  ---- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dorothy Ingram-Gorban" <dorothy.ingram-gorban@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 4:28 PM
> Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations
>
>
> Thank you Charles so zoomtext is made by the  name you mention. screen
> readers are for people for  all  grades of visual impairment.  As I said I
> know several  places such as schools for the blind and  other  Charities
who
> used to use Magic to do what Zoomtext now does much better. They all
however
> use Jaws as well I don't know if Zoomtext works with Wineyes  or Dolphin.
> There some totally blind people who do not bother with a  Monitor at all
if
> that is what you mean?  Most of us  probably  use any residual vision we
> have and a Screenreader. I only need Lunar for 1 reason that is to invert
> the screen to High contrast black so I can use white font. I am
> experimenting with the magnification at times.  it helps in small doses.
> Magic did most extraordinary things it did not work well with Jaws. Think
of
> it as a sort of assistant for Jaws. I rather think your Zoomtext may do
the
> same. Lunar not invasive.  it cost£250  but it makes life bearable for me.
I
> do like to see pictures as well.  if only as through a glass darkly.  I
> often shut Lunar off for this. If the photographs are  not in too much
> detail and if I know what they are I can after a while see them. I think
> this is due to the brain filling in what it knows should be there. some
days
> I am quite good at getting a fix on a picture other days not.. I expect it
> is the same for you. I am not using any central vision at all I have to
> think to see, I cannot explain it any other way. Don't forget up until a
few
> years ago I was using a typewriter taking photos myself.  never thinking I
> would lose what I had left. The original damage was done years ago but I
> kept enough to read print and of course I had no reason to think another
> mishap would happen.   This is why I need a really good scanner to be
> independent  because there may not always be another person around another
> half or family member. I am scanning carbon copies this is very hard
indeed.
> but even if I only get the gist of what it says I can make a decision
myself
> and not have to ask Dorothy.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Charles Crisp " <charlescrisp@xxxxxxx>
> To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 3:47 PM
> Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations
>
>
> Hi
>
> Zoomtext is made by AI squared. It seems to read in whatever mode or
colour
> combination. I also use a French speech engine for one of the profiles.
>
> I am not a technical expert, but I thought screen readers did not need a
> screen. The software just reads the electronic text regardless of font
size,
> colour or style.
>
> I am sure someone will know.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Charles Crisp
>
> See our holiday home website:
> www.thecrisps.co.uk/french-house <http://www.thecrisps.co.uk/french-house>
>
>
>
> This E mail is private and may contain copyright material in the text or
any
> attachments.
>
> The contents and attachments of this E mail have been scanned for viruses,
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> Of Dorothy Ingram-Gorban
> Sent: 26 February 2007 14:51
> To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations
>
>  Charles Dolphin or supernova is 1 of the 3 true screen readers in the
world
>
> of the Vips As yet I don't know what apple can do. so you have Jaws made
by
> Freedom and  Supernova made by Dolphin a British company. and windowEyes
and
>
> I forget  quite who makes that Steve nutt would know.  I do not know much
> about Zoomtext only that people seemed to move  to it who formerly used
> Magic is a Freedom Product. I have forgotten who makes your product is
that
> also Freedom? I have also heard of a product called  something like AI
> squared. Now I do not know if Zoom and A I squared are similar?  I do not
> know about Wineyes if it works in high contrast black and white I  am told
> Supernova does. I know Jaws does not Dorothy.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Charles Crisp " <charlescrisp@xxxxxxx>
> To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 11:08 AM
> Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations
>
>
> Hi Karina
>
> Light text on dark is probably right for plain text, but for more graphic
> layouts the conversion may not be so successful. I don't know Dolphin
> software or quite what it does. Zoomtext has a reading mode on the fly
which
> converts the text in whatever form into black background with a selected
> colour text font. This can then be further enlarged for reading.
>
> Other colour combinations particularly those with colour 'overlays' such
as
> green, yellow or blue can help with particular eye conditions.
>
> Personally I do not attempt to read from the screen, it is quicker to use
> the reader.
> The biggest fault with the reader is that it will not read 'dialogue
boxes',
> which is strange because it can be forced to speak using a 'speak it' tool
> which works most of the time.
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Charles Crisp
>
> See our holiday home website:
> www.thecrisps.co.uk/french-house <http://www.thecrisps.co.uk/french-house>
>
>
>
> This E mail is private and may contain copyright material in the text or
any
> attachments.
>
> The contents and attachments of this E mail have been scanned for viruses,
> but you may wish to make your own test before oopening attachments.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> Of Karina Gregory
> Sent: 26 February 2007 01:57
> To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations
>
> Hi Charles,
> I would have thought that light text on a darker background would be the
> better option for most people, particularly as this would reduce glare.
I'm
> sure that others will put me right if I'm wrong.  I don't think there's
ever
> going to be a solution that can meet everyone.  I suppose that the other
> option would be to change the colour preferences within your magnification
> softwae, but I don't know about others but sometimes this can be very
> confusing as it changes the whole screen and sometimes makes it difficult
to
> differentiate between the menu bars and other screen content.  I
personally
> prefer to use the inverted colours offered by Lunar as this identifies the
> menus as well as the text much better.  There are some other alternatives
> e.g. yellow on blue, light green on dark green, but I find these quite
> difficult.  Do other magnification users agree with what Im saying about
> being able to differentiate between the menu bars and the other text?
> Karina
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Charles Crisp " <charlescrisp@xxxxxxx>
> To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 10:46 AM
> Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations
>
>
> Hi all
>
> I've come late to this discussion.
>
> One of the problems with screen colours which are fixed to any standard is
> that some eye conditions are variable and one set of colour and contrast
may
> not suit everyone.
> Someone mentioned the BBC and they have the 'My web, my way' web site at
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/
>
> This contains advice on how to change the screen colours and contrast for
> individual preference.
>
> Perhaps it is more important to have a standard that will allow all screen
> readers perform better, and we all know how difficult this can be.
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Charles Crisp
>
> See our holiday home website:
> www.thecrisps.co.uk/french-house <http://www.thecrisps.co.uk/french-house>

>
>
>
> This E mail is private and may contain copyright material in the text or
any
> attachments.
>
> The contents and attachments of this E mail have been scanned for viruses,
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> Of Léonie Watson
> Sent: 24 February 2007 22:21
> To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations
>
> Karen,
>
>     You're absolutely right about the fact that many agencies are
> unscrupulous about the quality of service they deliver. It's one of the
many
> reasons that reading PAS 78 is such a good idea:
> http://www.drc-gb.org/library/website_accessibility_guidance/pas_78.aspx
>
>     For people who are commissioning websites, but know little about web
> accessibility, PAS 78 is a great place to start understanding the basics.
It
> even includes a checklist of questions to ask prospective agencies before
> you hire them.
>
>     Additionally, it talks about the need for ensuring that the level of
> accessibility required is explicitly mentioned in the contract you have
with
> the agency. That way, if it comes to light at a later point that your
> website is not accessible, you have legal recourse to resolve the problem.
>
>
> Regards,
> Léonie.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> Of Karen Packham
> Sent: 24 February 2007 21:03
> To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations
>
>
> I sometimes help organisations with their websites, and sadly I know that
> some of them (or more probably their web agencies) will put the
> accessibility logos on their sites because they believe certain testing
> tools are all they need to use, and they don't actually read the
> accessibility guidelines.
>
> Others say they are "working towards accessibility", so they say it's
> cheaper for them to have the logo on the website from the start, or else
> they will have to pay the agency to add it later. And others are simply
> misled by their agencies completely.
>
> Colour contrast is definitely one thing that inexperienced organisations
are
> surprised to hear about, so I'd suggest you contact them to explain the
> issue and ask them to confirm when they will fix it, as this nudge may be
> all that is needed.
>
> What would be good is some way of publicising the names of agencies that
do
> mislead their clients in this respect. The odd mistake is understandable,
> but what some of them get away with is outrageous. In the end their
clients
> are the ones who end up taking all the flack, whereas the agency is
> invisible and only beholden to their client, who will have trusted them to
> have (and paid for) the skills that the organisation lacked.
>
> Hope this helps and sorry for the rant!
>
> Karen
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> Of Vince Thacker
> Sent: 24 February 2007 18:49
> To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bcab] Re: Accessibility considerations
>
>
> Karina, couldn't agree more.  The colour combination you mention sounds
> ridiculous.
>
> Contrast is indeed an issue, mentioned in many accessibility contexts.
>
> For example, this is from w3.org's section, "Techniques For Accessibility:
> Evaluation And Repair Tools"
>
> "Checkpoint 2.2 - Ensure that foreground and background color combinations
> provide sufficient contrast when viewed by someone having color deficits
or
> when viewed on a black and white screen "
>
> The contrast values can indeed be tested by looking at the numbers or
> numeric equivalents of names used for colors. So it's pretty easy to
> auto-detect this problem.
>
> I've used the Vision Australia Web Accessibility Toolbar for a long time.
> One of the tests included there is a colour contrast test. It's not
> difficult to carry this out, so really there's no excuse for getting it
> wrong. It helps if you know that the red, green and blue can each range
from
> 0 to 255, and that the hex digits for those are 00 and FF. That's about
all
> there is to it.
>
> Sadly, I've come across sites put together by blind people who haven't got
> it anywhere near right. One had a green background (00FF00), red text
> (FF0000) and blue links (0000ff). Well, the FF digits give it away
straight
> away. The text would be invisible in black and white, and in colour it
would
> at the very least look yucky.
>
> I don't know for sure, but I'd have thought even automated tests like
> WebXact would fail pages with poor colour contrasts.
>
> Of course, it's not as simple as that if you are designing a site for
> dyslexics or people who have eye conditions like M D where they get a lot
of
> glare. the contrast values could be fine, but the site could be a pain to
> read. I know of what I speak, believe me.
>
> Vince.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Karina Gregory <mailto:karina.gregory@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 5:50 PM
> Subject: [bcab] Accessibility considerations
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've just come across a website that claims to have WAI - AA and
> WCAG 1.0 having a symbol in the corner of ths creen.  The thing that I
don't
> agree with is the colour contrast - white text on a light blue background.
> My question is that when websites are tested by an accessibility
> website/program for accessibility, is colour contrast taken into
> consideration?  Surely the colour schemes to be used can be picked up from
> the code.  If it isn't already taken into consideration, maybe it could be
i
> nthe future by specifying to the accessibility tool what is good contrast
> and what is bad contrast.  Do you follow what I'm saying?  For example, if
> the tool was told that white text on a light blue background was not good
> contrast then it woud be able to reject websites that were accessed using
> this method.
>
> I'm interested in hearing the views of others on this topic.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Karina
>
> I'm protected by SpamBrave <http://www.spambrave.com/>
>
>
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