[bcab] Re: Programming as a career?

DJ,
Yes I agree, but I was just meaning to point out an area where programming is not always logical. 

Nigel
That is IllogicalCaptain  DJ.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dj Paddy" <mygroups@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 11:09 PM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Programming as a career?



Programming's not syntax though.
I hate to be picky but i'd class writing the syntax just implamenting programming.
Learning the language constructs, data structures, conceptial elements like that in combination with writing the syntax is programming.
That's why if you take a class in programming you dont' just sit and write code or you shouldn't be. 

Dj Paddy
Ôà
----- Original Message ----- From: "Nigel" <stoppard@xxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 7:48 PM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Programming as a career?


Depending on how consistent the language is with it's syntax.

Nigel
Syntax error
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dj Paddy" <mygroups@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 3:55 PM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Programming as a career?



Karina,
Programming is probably one of the most logical things in computing next to troubleshooting and knowledge base systems. 

Dj Paddy

Ôà
----- Original Message ----- From: "Karina Gregory" <karina.gregory@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:16 AM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Programming as a career?



Hi Nick,
I'm sure that if I sat down and really looked at it then I'd be able to work it out but I just like things to be logical and programming doesn't seem to 
be very logical but if probably is if you know what you are doing.
Karina
----- Original Message ----- From: <Nick.Adamson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 4:09 PM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Programming as a career?


Hi Karina.

It is probably quite true that you do have to have a bit of an odd mind
to get in to the deeps of programming. I'm quite happy to admit I have
an odd mind. Or as my wife puts it, I'm just weird.
<grins>

Cheers.
Nick.


-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Karina Gregory
Sent: 21 March 2007 14:44
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: Programming as a career?

Hi Nick, I totally agree.  There's ways and means of overcoming the
minor
issues.  I didn't really have a problem with the graphical bit, I just
had a
problem knowing what software was available to help me and knowing how
accessible it was going to be and easy to use.  At the same time as
studying
and trying to keep up with everyone else it made it very tiring but as
you
say if you're determined enough you will then succeed.  It was the
programming bit I couldn't get my head around, the software development
bit
wasn't too bad at all.
Karina
----- Original Message ----- From: <Nick.Adamson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:48 AM
Subject: [bcab] Re: Programming as a career?


Hi Clive.

In my experience that statement is completely inaccurate.

You'll have to excuse the below text because I feel like a bit of a
ramble on a soap box!

I am a professional Software Engineer (computer programmer) for a major
subcontractor for the UK MOD. It is true that in today's modern software
development environment that it isn't quite as easy for a blind person
to break in to as it has been in the past. This is mainly because
Software Engineering is more than just sitting at a computer coding.
It's now pretty much standard to use a full software development life
cycle which includes a Software Architecture phase. This is mostly done
in graphical modelling tools in a standard known as UML. (Unified
Modelling Language.). UML is designed to give an overall view of the
software at a high, (there's a Database part here, there's a web front
end here, there's some sort of hardware device here  and so on. The
communication between the components is also described in a graphical
form) and at a lower level write down nearly to the code.

As UML is pretty much now the standard across the industry it is
necessary that any Software Engineer needs to be confident in this
graphical world. It takes initiative and effort for a blind person to
work around the graphical way of modelling but it can be done. That's
not just a in the air statement, I am a fully integrated member in our
Software Development Team of over 45 Software Engineers. I have come up
with solutions to reading other team members diagrams and also producing
diagrams for my own software.

The other part of the Software Development life cycle which may cause
some blind people problems is the production of Graphical User
Interfaces. It should be pointed out at this point that a common
misconception of most people is that the User Interface is the main
thing and takes about 80% of the time coding to produce. This isn't the
case. On medium to complex systems the User Interface is probably around
30% of the time coding. There are also techniques for a Blind developer
to produce User Interfaces. I've done this in 4 Different programming
languages independently. It is also possible for a Blind programmers
interface to be as neat and well laid out as a sighted developers. It's
been commented that most prototype software interfaces produced by the
other developers here isn't as neat or as well laid out as the end
version. Because of the mathematical way I produce interfaces often
prototype interfaces are very close to the end product that goes out of
the door. This is because when a sighted developer puts an interface
together they just tend to drag and drop objects on to the screen and
leave the tidying up until nearer the end of development. As I lay my
interfaces out in code often they are lined up and logically grouped.
This isn't me trying to brag but just what I've found in my experience.

I could understand how some blind people would find it tuff to get the
concepts in modern software development however if they are determined
enough to succeed then they will.

HTH.
Nick.
-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Clive Lever
Sent: 20 March 2007 22:59
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Programming as a career?

Hi all,

in a more general discussion about employment of blind people on another
list, the following assertion was made:

"programming arrived but I understand has changed and very few blind
people

work in that field nowadays".   Discuss.


Cheers,
Clive

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