[bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

No it’s available for anyone and everyone – it’s RM who happen to be targeting 
the Educaiton sector with it but you can get it on the highstreet.

 

To run a windows screenreader on the device you’d have to purchase the windows 
edition which retails for about £270 I think, running xp home.

 

I have no experience of actually running a screenreader on one of these so 
can’t comment on the likely performance once you get a screenreader installed 
especially if you then add an office suite to the mix.  The lower priced models 
apparently have fixed components so you can’t upgrade memory but not the upper 
end of the range.   More models coming onstream later in the year too so might 
be one to keep a watch on rather than jumping in.

 

 

Adrian Higginbotham

Project manager: Learning services

Becta

Tel: Direct dial 024 7679 7333 - Becta switchboard 02476-416994.

Email: Adrian.Higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.becta.org.uk/
BECTA, Millburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry, CV4 7JJ 

 

From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
David Quarmby
Sent: 20 March 2008 11:25
To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

 

Hi,

will this work with a screen reader and is it only available for education 
establishments?

 

regards
David Quarmby
quarmby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
07736 087019
Inclusive Design means that all products, services, environments etc., should 
be accessible and usable by the majority of people to the greatest extent 
without the need for any adaptation or specialist design. 

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Adrian Higginbotham <mailto:adrian.higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx>  

        To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

        Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:39 PM

        Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

         

        It’s the asus eee pc

        http://eeepc.asus.com/global/

        also available branded by rm

        http://www.rm.com/Primary/Products/product.asp?cref=PD1030046

         

         

        Adrian Higginbotham

        Project manager: Learning services

        Becta

        Tel: Direct dial 024 7679 7333 - Becta switchboard 02476-416994.

        Email: Adrian.Higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx
        Web: http://www.becta.org.uk/
        BECTA, Millburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry, CV4 7JJ 

         

        From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Graham Page
        Sent: 19 March 2008 15:36
        To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

         

        Hi Graham.  I have vaguely heard of the Eesus or something like it.  Do 
you have the exact name of the product so I can search for it.  I understand 
this product comes shipped with Linux though you can get it to run XP.

         

        I quite like the idea of the GW product the Braille Sense I think it is 
called but GW does not seem to use one UK distributer which is a problem.  If 
the Braille Sense fails then I don't want to have to send my product back to 
the US to get it repaired.  This could be expensive and it could take weeks.

         

        This is not intended to be a criticism of companies such as Computer 
Room Services or Force 9 but more a criticism of the GW model of selling.  It 
is ok to have lots of small companies selling your product but none can afford 
to put the support mechanisms in place.  Brille products can still be quite 
high maintenance, particularly if they are regularly used in dusty environments.

         

        I have heard vague mutterings about FS working on Street Talker but as 
you say there is really nothing concrete and the first incarnation was frankly 
a joke and it didn't even support UK post codes and it was impossible to lock 
the keyboard so keys could accidentally get pressed.  I do question the sense 
in having GPs software on a device as large as the Pac Mate or the Braillenote 
for that matter.  Maybe you should consider trekker or even Wayfinder on a 
mobile such as the N95 or N82.  I am told with these phones that the inbuilt 
receivers are not as good as external GPS receivers from companies such as 
Holux but I do believe that gPs on a mobile is going to be the direction to go.

         

        Regards

         

        Graham

        Graham Page
        Home Phone: 0207 265 9493
        Mobile: 07753 607980
        Fax:  0870 706 2773
        Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx
        Skype: gabriel_mcbird

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Graham Wilkins <mailto:graham@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  

        To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

        Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 2:49 PM

        Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

         

        Hi Graham,

        I don't know enough about the Pacmate Omni, whether that would cover 
your concerns.  We haven't upgraded our Pacmate to the omni yet as we are not 
happy with F.S.'s support and rate of upgrade - we have been waiting for 2 
years for an effective version of Streettalk, which they have been promising 
all that time.  Even with the release of the Omni, there is no mention of GPS!  
We may look at the GW Micro braillemate (I think it is called) which is being 
regularly upgraded and now has GPS with it.

        With the size of laptops getting so small even with their screens, I 
would have thought you could get a full-blown PC into something the size of a 
Pacmate without too much problem.  I would have thought that someone will soon 
twig that you could provide such a device at a significantly lower price than 
the current braille notetakers.  The EEsus is showing the way with solid state 
storage at a cheap price.

        graham W

         

        
________________________________


        From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Graham Page
        Sent: 19 March 2008 13:16
        To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

        Hi Graham.  I would certainly agree with you.  In terms of commonly 
available well supported notetakers, the Pac Mate qwerty version is good for 
those wanting a qwerty keyboard.  The lack of connectivity though does mean 
that you need a lot of extra cards with you for whatever you want to do even if 
you just want to connect to something wirelessly or by bluetooth.  Support for 
Word and excel is there but unfortunately not to the same degree as one would 
get from a laptop.  This is due largely to limitations in Windows Mobile.  I am 
advised that the version of Word in Windows Mobile is limited to 300 lines 
maximum size for a file and the amount of formatting you can do with this is 
really extremely limited.  Word in Microsoft Windows Mobile is really a program 
for reading shortish documents and making occasional changes.  To get round 
some of these serious limitations, Blazie has written FSEdit which in many ways 
is a much better word processor.  More formatting options are available and 
there is no file size limit but unfortunately there is no table support.  If I 
knew that table support was due to be included soon I would seriously consider 
the PacMate despite its size as the qwerty keyboard is quite comfortable.

         

        I have in the past said all I have to say about Braillenote.  In 
summary, it is a good Braille note taker that is intuitive to learn, has a good 
Braille display and fairly decent connection options.  Humanware has, though 
been guilty of letting support for documents in other formats slip badly and 
this means that, in reality, Braillenote is good for making notes and reading 
text files that can be translated into Braille on the fly.  There are loads of 
secondary features including games and a decent daisy player and even an fm 
radio but any Word document with tables refuses to load at all so you can't 
even read it.  I hope humanware concentrate on resolving these file formatting 
issues, but without any kind of guarantee from Humanware this lack of format 
support is a serious problem.

         

        What these companies need to get clear I think is that at the prices 
charged, their products need to be far more than just basic note takers.  to 
some extent, they really should be marketed and indeed designed as laptop 
replacements, particularly useful for all in one design, long battery life and 
an always on capability.

         

        Regards

         

        Graham

        Graham Page
        Home Phone: 0207 265 9493
        Mobile: 07753 607980
        Fax:  0870 706 2773
        Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx
        Skype: gabriel_mcbird

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Graham Wilkins <mailto:graham@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  

        To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

        Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:22 AM

        Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

         

        Hi Graham,

        At the end of the day, the size issue is the keyboard you need.  A 
useable braille input keyboard can be smaller than a useable qwerty.  I think 
the key areas where the specialised notetakers win out, are 1. the option of 
braille input, so no keyboard; no screen required; built-in or connectable 
braille display.

        Graham W

         

        
________________________________


        From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Graham Page
        Sent: 19 March 2008 08:10
        To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

        Hi Graham.

         

        I do indeed believe that a laptop and portable braille display may be 
the answer in my case.  It looks good in theory but it does take rather a while 
to set things up.  This being said, currently I do not use this at meetings and 
I suppose it is becoming increasingly common for people to make notes on 
laptops.  It's not as convenient as the all in one solutions I know but it does 
seem as though all the all in one solutions have fallen hopelessly behind in 
terms of format support or in terms of connectivity, so I may in the end have 
little choice if I want to be able to take notes yet also use Word documents 
with tables effectively.

         

        Regards

         

        Graham

         

         

        Graham Page
        Home Phone: 0207 265 9493
        Mobile: 07753 607980
        Fax:  0870 706 2773
        Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx
        Skype: gabriel_mcbird

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Graham Wilkins <mailto:graham@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  

        To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

        Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 11:13 PM

        Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

         

        Hi graham, I don't see any answers to your mail.  How about one of the 
ultra-portables like the Samsung Q1- or if You're a window eyes user, the GW 
Micro Smalltalk ultra?  The Braille wave is a nice Bluetooth braille display, 
and |I think it also has input keys as it is listed as having note-taking 
capabilities. (Try Steve Nutt for these items)

        Graham W

         

        
________________________________


        From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Graham Page
        Sent: 14 March 2008 10:23
        To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: [bcab] Braille displays and laptops

        Hi all.

         

        I am interested in finding an efficient way of working while out on the 
road.  I want to be able to produce written documents in Microsoft Word that 
conform to a word template which includes tables.

         

        Currently I use a Braillenote which is nice and portable with a good 
Braille keyboard and Braille display.  Learning to use the Braillenote has been 
a pleasure and I still have the Braillenote Classic running the 5.1 software 
and find it very reliable as far as it goes.  It is now over 5 years old.

         

        The big problem for me is that Microsoft Word documents with tables are 
not really supported and this is an issue for me when it comes to work.  Newer 
versions of the Braillenote, such as the Braillenote MPower  include a daisy 
player, games and even an FM radio but the lack of Word compatibility means 
that it does not really meet my needs.

         

        I like having a longish battery life and the small size of the 
Braillenote.  WiFi compatibility is also handy.

         

        I am prepared to give up the Braille keyboard when note taking though 
this does provide a nice quick way of taking notes.  In my mind, a QWERTY 
keyboard is advantageous when producing documents intended for others as while 
my Braille is reasonable, I am less accurate than when typing.  I have 
therefore considered the Pac Mate as this has a QWERTY keyboard and the Omni 
version of Pac Mate now uses Windows Mobile 6 so no problem with losing data 
when the battery dies.  From what I can gather this is now much more stable.  
My main problem is that this device is quite large and, while it does work with 
tables in Word,, you do not get the same ability to manipulate them as you 
would with a full version of Word.  You also do not get the internet support 
with Windows Mobile that you would get with Internet Explorer.  Connectivity is 
also poor.  You need extra cards to do everything. nothing is built in.  The 
only advantage I can see with the Pac mate is that you do not need to connect 
other devices such as a Braille display and you get major battery life 
advantages.

         

        So, after considering all note taking options, I believe the only way I 
can get a system with decent Microsoft Word support that does not weigh a ton 
is to go for a light weight laptop and connect a Braille display by Bluetooth 
or USB.  I basically want guidelines as to what to go for and also I would like 
at times to connect the Braille display by Bluetooth.  There are a few issues 
here.  firstly there is battery life.  I could have a spare battery but if so 
can I charge this outside the computer?  otherwise fiddling with batteries to 
make sure there is always one charged becomes a major inconvenience.  Secondly, 
how reliable is connection by Bluetooth in practice when it comes to a Braille 
display?  Is it practical or will I always need to use a USB cable in reality?  
There are times when I need to take notes at assessments and it is important 
that connection of the Braille display is reliable.

         

        Thirdly there is ergonomics.  In the ideal world,  if I want to read a 
large amount of text on the Braille display, I would use a laptop perhaps in a 
bag and have a Braille display connected to it and use the Braille display for 
reading.  Ideally, if the Braille display had a keyboard, this could be used 
for input.  if this is not possible then maybe I could at least connect the 
Braille display by Bluetooth and navigate through the document using the 
navigation keys on the Braille display.  This is all a bit lashed together as 
there are 2 devices to keep charged but if anyone is using a lightweight laptop 
with a Braille display please let me know.  Whether I can use Bluetooth or not, 
the most appropriate Braille display looks to be The Brailliant 32 cell to me, 
having all I want though there is no keyboard for occasional Braille input.

         

        To make this system work, a portable laptop with a decent keyboard and 
good quality of construction that is light weight is also clearly important.

         

        I am finding that identifying the most appropriate product combination 
here is really quite tricky, so any views, including suggestions from sellers 
of equipment would give me more to consider. 

         

        Sorry for the rather long email.

         

        Regards

         

        Graham

         

         

        Graham Page
        Home Phone: 0207 265 9493
        Mobile: 07753 607980
        Fax:  0870 706 2773
        Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx
        Skype: gabriel_mcbird

        
        
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