[bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

Hi,
will this work with a screen reader and is it only available for education 
establishments?

regards
David Quarmby
quarmby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
07736 087019
Inclusive Design means that all products, services, environments etc., should 
be accessible and usable by the majority of people to the greatest extent 
without the need for any adaptation or specialist design. 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Adrian Higginbotham 
  To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:39 PM
  Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops


  It’s the asus eee pc

  http://eeepc.asus.com/global/

  also available branded by rm

  http://www.rm.com/Primary/Products/product.asp?cref=PD1030046

   

   

  Adrian Higginbotham

  Project manager: Learning services

  Becta

  Tel: Direct dial 024 7679 7333 - Becta switchboard 02476-416994.

  Email: Adrian.Higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx
  Web: http://www.becta.org.uk/
  BECTA, Millburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry, CV4 7JJ 

   

  From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf 
Of Graham Page
  Sent: 19 March 2008 15:36
  To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

   

  Hi Graham.  I have vaguely heard of the Eesus or something like it.  Do you 
have the exact name of the product so I can search for it.  I understand this 
product comes shipped with Linux though you can get it to run XP.

   

  I quite like the idea of the GW product the Braille Sense I think it is 
called but GW does not seem to use one UK distributer which is a problem.  If 
the Braille Sense fails then I don't want to have to send my product back to 
the US to get it repaired.  This could be expensive and it could take weeks.

   

  This is not intended to be a criticism of companies such as Computer Room 
Services or Force 9 but more a criticism of the GW model of selling.  It is ok 
to have lots of small companies selling your product but none can afford to put 
the support mechanisms in place.  Brille products can still be quite high 
maintenance, particularly if they are regularly used in dusty environments.

   

  I have heard vague mutterings about FS working on Street Talker but as you 
say there is really nothing concrete and the first incarnation was frankly a 
joke and it didn't even support UK post codes and it was impossible to lock the 
keyboard so keys could accidentally get pressed.  I do question the sense in 
having GPs software on a device as large as the Pac Mate or the Braillenote for 
that matter.  Maybe you should consider trekker or even Wayfinder on a mobile 
such as the N95 or N82.  I am told with these phones that the inbuilt receivers 
are not as good as external GPS receivers from companies such as Holux but I do 
believe that gPs on a mobile is going to be the direction to go.

   

  Regards

   

  Graham

  Graham Page
  Home Phone: 0207 265 9493
  Mobile: 07753 607980
  Fax:  0870 706 2773
  Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx
  Skype: gabriel_mcbird

  ----- Original Message ----- 

  From: Graham Wilkins 

  To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

  Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 2:49 PM

  Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

   

  Hi Graham,

  I don't know enough about the Pacmate Omni, whether that would cover your 
concerns.  We haven't upgraded our Pacmate to the omni yet as we are not happy 
with F.S.'s support and rate of upgrade - we have been waiting for 2 years for 
an effective version of Streettalk, which they have been promising all that 
time.  Even with the release of the Omni, there is no mention of GPS!  We may 
look at the GW Micro braillemate (I think it is called) which is being 
regularly upgraded and now has GPS with it.

  With the size of laptops getting so small even with their screens, I would 
have thought you could get a full-blown PC into something the size of a Pacmate 
without too much problem.  I would have thought that someone will soon twig 
that you could provide such a device at a significantly lower price than the 
current braille notetakers.  The EEsus is showing the way with solid state 
storage at a cheap price.

  graham W

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf 
Of Graham Page
  Sent: 19 March 2008 13:16
  To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

  Hi Graham.  I would certainly agree with you.  In terms of commonly available 
well supported notetakers, the Pac Mate qwerty version is good for those 
wanting a qwerty keyboard.  The lack of connectivity though does mean that you 
need a lot of extra cards with you for whatever you want to do even if you just 
want to connect to something wirelessly or by bluetooth.  Support for Word and 
excel is there but unfortunately not to the same degree as one would get from a 
laptop.  This is due largely to limitations in Windows Mobile.  I am advised 
that the version of Word in Windows Mobile is limited to 300 lines maximum size 
for a file and the amount of formatting you can do with this is really 
extremely limited.  Word in Microsoft Windows Mobile is really a program for 
reading shortish documents and making occasional changes.  To get round some of 
these serious limitations, Blazie has written FSEdit which in many ways is a 
much better word processor.  More formatting options are available and there is 
no file size limit but unfortunately there is no table support.  If I knew that 
table support was due to be included soon I would seriously consider the 
PacMate despite its size as the qwerty keyboard is quite comfortable.

   

  I have in the past said all I have to say about Braillenote.  In summary, it 
is a good Braille note taker that is intuitive to learn, has a good Braille 
display and fairly decent connection options.  Humanware has, though been 
guilty of letting support for documents in other formats slip badly and this 
means that, in reality, Braillenote is good for making notes and reading text 
files that can be translated into Braille on the fly.  There are loads of 
secondary features including games and a decent daisy player and even an fm 
radio but any Word document with tables refuses to load at all so you can't 
even read it.  I hope humanware concentrate on resolving these file formatting 
issues, but without any kind of guarantee from Humanware this lack of format 
support is a serious problem.

   

  What these companies need to get clear I think is that at the prices charged, 
their products need to be far more than just basic note takers.  to some 
extent, they really should be marketed and indeed designed as laptop 
replacements, particularly useful for all in one design, long battery life and 
an always on capability.

   

  Regards

   

  Graham

  Graham Page
  Home Phone: 0207 265 9493
  Mobile: 07753 607980
  Fax:  0870 706 2773
  Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx
  Skype: gabriel_mcbird

  ----- Original Message ----- 

  From: Graham Wilkins 

  To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

  Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:22 AM

  Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

   

  Hi Graham,

  At the end of the day, the size issue is the keyboard you need.  A useable 
braille input keyboard can be smaller than a useable qwerty.  I think the key 
areas where the specialised notetakers win out, are 1. the option of braille 
input, so no keyboard; no screen required; built-in or connectable braille 
display.

  Graham W

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf 
Of Graham Page
  Sent: 19 March 2008 08:10
  To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

  Hi Graham.

   

  I do indeed believe that a laptop and portable braille display may be the 
answer in my case.  It looks good in theory but it does take rather a while to 
set things up.  This being said, currently I do not use this at meetings and I 
suppose it is becoming increasingly common for people to make notes on laptops. 
 It's not as convenient as the all in one solutions I know but it does seem as 
though all the all in one solutions have fallen hopelessly behind in terms of 
format support or in terms of connectivity, so I may in the end have little 
choice if I want to be able to take notes yet also use Word documents with 
tables effectively.

   

  Regards

   

  Graham

   

   

  Graham Page
  Home Phone: 0207 265 9493
  Mobile: 07753 607980
  Fax:  0870 706 2773
  Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx
  Skype: gabriel_mcbird

  ----- Original Message ----- 

  From: Graham Wilkins 

  To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

  Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 11:13 PM

  Subject: [bcab] Re: Braille displays and laptops

   

  Hi graham, I don't see any answers to your mail.  How about one of the 
ultra-portables like the Samsung Q1- or if You're a window eyes user, the GW 
Micro Smalltalk ultra?  The Braille wave is a nice Bluetooth braille display, 
and |I think it also has input keys as it is listed as having note-taking 
capabilities. (Try Steve Nutt for these items)

  Graham W

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf 
Of Graham Page
  Sent: 14 March 2008 10:23
  To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [bcab] Braille displays and laptops

  Hi all.

   

  I am interested in finding an efficient way of working while out on the road. 
 I want to be able to produce written documents in Microsoft Word that conform 
to a word template which includes tables.

   

  Currently I use a Braillenote which is nice and portable with a good Braille 
keyboard and Braille display.  Learning to use the Braillenote has been a 
pleasure and I still have the Braillenote Classic running the 5.1 software and 
find it very reliable as far as it goes.  It is now over 5 years old.

   

  The big problem for me is that Microsoft Word documents with tables are not 
really supported and this is an issue for me when it comes to work.  Newer 
versions of the Braillenote, such as the Braillenote MPower  include a daisy 
player, games and even an FM radio but the lack of Word compatibility means 
that it does not really meet my needs.

   

  I like having a longish battery life and the small size of the Braillenote.  
WiFi compatibility is also handy.

   

  I am prepared to give up the Braille keyboard when note taking though this 
does provide a nice quick way of taking notes.  In my mind, a QWERTY keyboard 
is advantageous when producing documents intended for others as while my 
Braille is reasonable, I am less accurate than when typing.  I have therefore 
considered the Pac Mate as this has a QWERTY keyboard and the Omni version of 
Pac Mate now uses Windows Mobile 6 so no problem with losing data when the 
battery dies.  From what I can gather this is now much more stable.  My main 
problem is that this device is quite large and, while it does work with tables 
in Word,, you do not get the same ability to manipulate them as you would with 
a full version of Word.  You also do not get the internet support with Windows 
Mobile that you would get with Internet Explorer.  Connectivity is also poor.  
You need extra cards to do everything. nothing is built in.  The only advantage 
I can see with the Pac mate is that you do not need to connect other devices 
such as a Braille display and you get major battery life advantages.

   

  So, after considering all note taking options, I believe the only way I can 
get a system with decent Microsoft Word support that does not weigh a ton is to 
go for a light weight laptop and connect a Braille display by Bluetooth or USB. 
 I basically want guidelines as to what to go for and also I would like at 
times to connect the Braille display by Bluetooth.  There are a few issues 
here.  firstly there is battery life.  I could have a spare battery but if so 
can I charge this outside the computer?  otherwise fiddling with batteries to 
make sure there is always one charged becomes a major inconvenience.  Secondly, 
how reliable is connection by Bluetooth in practice when it comes to a Braille 
display?  Is it practical or will I always need to use a USB cable in reality?  
There are times when I need to take notes at assessments and it is important 
that connection of the Braille display is reliable.

   

  Thirdly there is ergonomics.  In the ideal world,  if I want to read a large 
amount of text on the Braille display, I would use a laptop perhaps in a bag 
and have a Braille display connected to it and use the Braille display for 
reading.  Ideally, if the Braille display had a keyboard, this could be used 
for input.  if this is not possible then maybe I could at least connect the 
Braille display by Bluetooth and navigate through the document using the 
navigation keys on the Braille display.  This is all a bit lashed together as 
there are 2 devices to keep charged but if anyone is using a lightweight laptop 
with a Braille display please let me know.  Whether I can use Bluetooth or not, 
the most appropriate Braille display looks to be The Brailliant 32 cell to me, 
having all I want though there is no keyboard for occasional Braille input.

   

  To make this system work, a portable laptop with a decent keyboard and good 
quality of construction that is light weight is also clearly important.

   

  I am finding that identifying the most appropriate product combination here 
is really quite tricky, so any views, including suggestions from sellers of 
equipment would give me more to consider. 

   

  Sorry for the rather long email.

   

  Regards

   

  Graham

   

   

  Graham Page
  Home Phone: 0207 265 9493
  Mobile: 07753 607980
  Fax:  0870 706 2773
  Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx
  Skype: gabriel_mcbird



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