[AZ-Observing] Re: Trip to NM
- From: L Knauth <Knauth@xxxxxxx>
- To: <az-observing@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, AZ-Observing <az-observing@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 14:16:24 -0700
Stan raises a lot of interesting points about sky darkness. Without actual
measurements, I have noticed that the skyglow component at really dark sky
sites seems to vary during the night and, probably, with date, season, and
whoknowswhat. I find it useful to note how the gray glow varies as you go from
zenith to horizon (in a zone free of Milky Way, Zodiacal band, and city light
domes). The night always starts off with noticeable glow extending up about 30
degrees from the horizon, the "crud". On good nights, the height lowers and is
down to about 10 degrees several hours after sunset. It can remain all night,
but some nights it vanishes altogether. I always feel that an hour or so after
midnight gives the least visible sheen.
In 2002, I was in the deep outback of Western Australia with the nearest little
light bulb over 200 km away and witnessed the most amazingly dark sky I had
ever seen. A re-visit in 2005 at the same time of year was disappointing;
there was a gray sheen over all the sky and lots of horizon crud even though it
was really clear. However, it was slightly more humid on the return trip, so
maybe that is a more important factor than we think.
The Sun blasts UV into the top of the atmosphere all day and, no doubt, causes
things to crackle and pop long after sunset in response to electrons dropping
into lower energy states. The midnight hours may put us in the darkest shadow
for things going on way up there?
Could ramble on with lots of anecdotal comments, but I'm sure someone in this
group has some actual scientific wisdom on the matter. Much of the action on
those sky-glow meters seems to be in the decimal places. Maybe there are
serious photometric studies with science-based interpretations? Thanks for
bringing up the skyglow issue.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: az-observing-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Stan Gorodenski
Sent: Mon 5/25/2009 1:23 PM
To: AZ-Observing
Subject: [AZ-Observing] Trip to NM
I made my trip to my lot in NM. During the ride from Datil to my lot one
gets to see the Plains of San Augustin against a backdrop of mountains.
This is one of my most favorite natural sceneries, maybe the most
favorite. It has such a serene feel to it. On Tuesday last week, the
day before I left Arizona, the weather forecast did not look good and so
I didn't take my telescope. I went anyway because the purpose of the
trip was for other reasons. It is a good thing I did not take my 10"
LXD75 because the forecast called for partly cloudy days and nights for
the week, 50% chance of rain on Tuesday, tapering off to about 20% for
the remainder of the week, but it was completely clouded over Thursday
and Friday, with a 100% chance of rain both days. It rained a lot. I got
a peek of some night skies early in the night on Saturday night.
Although I brag about the location of my lot being in a premier dark sky
location (and it is in one of the best dark sky locations in the SW), I
am not that convinced the skies are that significantly darker. There is
no light pollution from man made sources. That is an absolute. However,
it just doesn't seem the skies are as dark as they should be. Whenever I
mention that they look gray from zenith to horizon, the response is that
this is a sign of a good site because the eyes are dark adapted so the
skies look lighter than one would expect. However, this just does not
feel to be the correct explanation. For example, the glimpse I got of
the sky through the clouds on Saturday night did not look that dark and
this was after emerging from my tent with a light inside, and lights
outside to collect moths, and so eyes were definitely not dark adapted.
Also, some claim that at 8,000 ft ele there are physiological effects
that make the sky appear brigher, but I do not think this is the correct
explanation either. When I was at my lot in September, 2007 I took some
dark sky readings and it verifies, to me, that the skies are not that
dark. The following readings were taken in 2007 and are Arizona times.
NM time is one hour ahead that time of the year. They were taken with
the same dark sky meter and so there is no between instrument
differences. I recall raising this issue in the past, but I do not
remember if I presented the following data.
Last Frontier
Sept 13 9:10 21.75 (ave of 3)
Sept 13 10:05 21.70 (ave of 3)
Sept 13 11:05 21.65 (ave of 3)
Sept 14 2:50 21.84 (ave of 3)
Sept 15 9:40 21.61 (ave of 4)
Sept 15 10:55 21.42 (ave of 3)
Sept 17 11:05 21.42 (ave of 3)
Sept 18 11:15 21.54 (ave of 6)
Sept 18 3:55 21.54 (ave of 3)
Sept 19 2:30 21.59 (ave of 3)
Blue Hills Observatory (Dewey, Az)
Aug 8 9:15 21.06 (one reading)
Aug 8 11:30 21.14 (one reading)
Aug 9 10:45 21.14 (ave of 3)
Cherry Road Site
Aug 9 10:00 21.49 (ave of 3)
There was one night it my NM lot where the dark sky reading was a nice
21.84. This was at 2:50 AM on Sept 14, but it was not duplicated on Sept
19. On that night the reading was taken at 2:30 AM and the reading
dropped to 21.59. It can be seen that although the Cherry Road site was
generally lower than the Last Frontier readings, there were a couple of
nights at Last Frontier that had lower readings than the Cherry site.
What could cause the readings not being higher at Last Frontier than I
had expected? One possible problem is that I only have one 3 reading
average for the Cherry Site. I understand that pointing at different
parts of the sky will make some difference, but if I recall, it was not
that much different unless one purposely compared a region with no stars
to a section of the Milky Way.
I am wondering if the Plains of San Augustin to the south of me, hidden
from view by Horse Mountain (a heck of a location name for a possible
observatory site), could be a cause. It is a wide expanse of very flat
grassland that is very light beige in color. It probably does a good job
of reflecting light back into the sky, but I cannot imagine back
reflected starlight being the cause of the lower readings than expected.
One wild idea is this. Is it possible that light from surrounding
cities, like Gallup, Socorro, even Albuquerque, etc., is somehow
dispersed horizontally by some atmospheric anomaly so that it gives the
appearance of air glow without an obvious point source? Alternatively,
are there too many variables I was not able to control that accounts for
the small difference between the Last Frontier readings and the Cherry
Rd site readings?
Stan
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