[AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor

  • From: "McNamara, Kathleen M." <Kathleen.McNamara@xxxxxx>
  • To: <members1@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 13:05:20 -0700

Quite a number of years ago, the APA Practice Directorate had a project
with Atlantic Bell South which showed a significant reduction in costs
when psychological assessments (objective testing like MMPI) were used
with those who were covered under insurance by them.  The savings came
from proper diagnosis and follow-up treatment recommendations,  with
significant reduction in psychiatric hospitalizations, in particular.  

  Unfortunately, when I have tried to track down anything published or
even a summary report, I have been informed that the data were
proprietary and it is not a published finding.  I would like to see the
Denver VA study (or have the reference), if you could please forward
that to me.  Thank you. 

 

It would be great if we had some efforts from OMHS to coordinate a study
across VA MHSs to do a large scale study, where psychological
assessments were included in Intakes to make diagnostic decisions, and
then utilization and/or costs for things such as: medications,
hospitalizations, and subsequent number of visits to each of the various
MH  provider groups (psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker,
counselor) over a two year period could be tracked.  I think our
resources would be well spent.  

 

 

Kathleen M. McNamara, Ph.D., ABPP

Lead Professional, Psychology

Staff Psychologist, Maui VA CBOC

808-871-2454

 

 

 

From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hagans, Chad L.
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 7:59 AM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health
Counselor

 

Right, but how much money does it save when you use it? J

 

I think that's the question the people making the decisions are asking,
unfortunately.

 

Now, is anyone in our field working on answering that question?

 

 

Chad Hagans, Ph.D.

Licensed Psychologist

Pensacola Joint Ambulatory Care Clinic

850-912-2000 ext. 2091

 

From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evans, F. Barton
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:55 PM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health
Counselor

 

Well said, William.  

 

There is an  empirically well supported treatment method called
Therapeutic Assessment (TA) developed by Dr. Stephen Finn in Austin
which integrates psychological assessment and treatment.  There was even
a study done at the Denver VA successfully using TA with suicidal
veterans. If anyone is interested, I would be glad to send information
next week.

 

 

F Barton Evans, PhD

Clinical Psychologist

VA Montana Health Care System

Bozeman CBOC

Bozeman, MT 59715

 

Clinical Professor

Department of Psychiatry and 

  Behavioral Science

George Washington University

  School of Medicine

 

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From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Crisp, William
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 11:01 AM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health
Counselor

 

What sets psychologists apart and makes them valuable is their training
and ability to conduct research and do assessments. Many psychologists
seem to have ignored these assets in favor of developing things like
manualized training which opens the door for other disciplines to do our
work.  In many VA settings research and assessment are discouraged as
time consuming and less important than therapy, case management  and
documentation.  Instead psychologists should develop protocols which
emphasize both assessment and research as guides to treatment.  This
could greatly improve treatment over generic style manualized treatment
and demonstrate the value of psychologists. 

 

William Crisp, Ph.D.

Clinical Psychologist

Substance Treatment Employment Program

Central Texas Veteran's Health care System

Temple, TX

 

From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hagans, Chad L.
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:03 AM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health
Counselor

 

In my opinion just another failure by psychology to demonstrate
empirically the value of what we offer over and above the value of what
other mental health professionals offer, if indeed that value exists.
I'd like to think it does because I'm a psychologist, but to say it does
without empirical evidence would indicate bias more than anything else
in my opinion.

 

It's time to get to work and demonstrate the value.  Who wants to do the
work?

 

 

Chad Hagans, Ph.D.

Licensed Psychologist

Pensacola Joint Ambulatory Care Clinic

850-912-2000 ext. 2091

 

From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Long, Stephen
[Northport]
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 3:30 PM
To: 'members1@xxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health
Counselor

 

Edgardo, you sound the way I feel at times like these.

 

It is very difficult to see so much of what one has worked for
(developing skills, making what contributions you can, getting doctoral
and postdoctoral training) over a professional career to have much of
that devalued, denied, dismissed.

 

om: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kirchberg,
Thomas
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:49 AM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health
Counselor

 

Thank you, Edgardo.  I value your viewpoint on all the issues you raise!

 

Tom 

 

Thomas M. Kirchberg, Ph.D., ABPP

Chief Psychologist

Mental Health Service

VA Medical Center Memphis

901-523-8990 ext. 5320

 

From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Padin, Edgardo
(VHACLE)
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 9:55 PM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health
Counselor

 

By interesting, I'm sure you mean discouraging.  After 20+ years in the
VA, I continue to be astounded at how so many other professions continue
to have sufficient advocacy to increase their grade levels commensurate
with their responsibilities (case in point, Social Workers continue a
juggernaut rise in grade with each new "position" created (most now
seemingly needing GS-12 grades) while psychologist have an almost
insurmountable task getting approvals at the GS-14 level.  The data
notwithstanding (that we have increased the number of GS-14 positions),
the success of our Hybrid T38 and Professional Standards Boards have
been underwhelming.  

 

This is not to start an old argument about our glass ceiling as
psychologists in the VA; but it is to say that this new initiative to
bring in and somehow "Qualify" Master's Level Counselors is a lobbyist
win by Master's Level Counselors and Counseling Programs to establish
their niche in the VA.  And it will ultimately be to the detriment of
Psychology.  A system of lower entry pay entry "counselors" who can rise
to the GS-13 by taking on greater responsibility means fewer
Psychologists will be needed as they become overseers of a cadre
counselors doing more of the supposed "drone" work of fully manualized
and technicalized therapy.  What a Brave New World.  Anyone who thinks
this is not the case should look at the private sector and see how lower
level "Assistants" are replacing part of the work (and the pay) of their
more educated colleagues.  

 

Let me clarify here that I have nothing against Master's Level
Counselors, we have used them in Cleveland ever since I have been here.
I don't know who is trying to kid whom whey they say that this is a "new
position" of Mental Health Counselor, but we have had GS101-11
Readjustment Counselors in the VA for well over thee decades. They have
limitations, but have worked out well in the areas we have used them.
But what I do know is that not a single one has ever shown that they
have some secret knowledge or facility or skill and foundational
learning that is different from, greater than, or particularly more
technical in nature that Psychologists.  Usually, they have less.  The
only difference now is that some accreditation body (CACREP) can now be
added as a profession lobbying body in the VA.  Personally, I am not
amused.  

 

So, maybe we as Psychologists are too educated, maybe manualized,
evidence  based protocols are making our "therapy" work too rote and
straightforward for the amount of pay we are demanding, maybe what we
do, with a good cookbook here and an evidence based therapy there, can
be done by cheaper labor.  I'm not sure; but I will say that with this
cannon shot of promoting our Master's Level colleagues, we will find
out.  End of rant.  

 

From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Fischer, Pamela
(OKL)
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:52 AM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health
Counselor

 

It is interesting to me that the LPC who is a program manager can be a
GS 13 - the grade level that many psychologists who manage programs and
have years of experience cannot move beyond.

 

Pamela C. Fischer, Ph.D.

Director, Primary Care Mental Health #111AC

Veterans Affairs Medical Center -OKC

921 N.E. 13th Street

Oklahoma City, OK 73104

Phone: 405-456-3634

Fax:     405-456--5956

From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Shorter, George
Wiley
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:54 AM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor

 

Colleagues, 

 

As many of you have been awaiting the Qualification Standards for Mental
Health Counselors, we wanted to share these with you when we first
received it. 

 

 

George Shorter, Ph.D.

President, AVAPL

 

 


"The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any
war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how
they perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated
by their country."   -George Washington

 

 

 

 



PolicyUpdate


Date:  9/29/10                                                  ID#:
2010-25

Policy Office:  Recruitment & Placement Policy Service (059)
Contact:  Kent A. Wellman (Kent.Wellman2@xxxxxx) 
Policy Subject:  VA Handbook 5005, PT II, Chapter 2, Appendix G43,
Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor qualification standard.

Handbook Reference: 5005

The attached new VA qualification standard for Licensed Professional
Mental Health Counselor, GS-101 has been signed.  Since this is a new
occupation to VA there will NOT be an initial one-time boarding.
Additional implementation instructions and guidance will be forthcoming
from the Veterans Health Administration (VHA).  The new Appendix G43
will be added to the electronic version of VA Handbook 5005, Pt II,
located at http://vaww1.va.gov/ohrm/HRLibrary/Dir-Policy.htm

Questions regarding this Policy Update should be addressed to the Title
38 Staffing Policy Section, mailto:staffingpolicy059/vaco@xxxxxxx 

Status: Policy Process Step 4

Estimated date of release/implementation:  9/29/2010

This policy alert e-mail is part of a notification process that is
intended to alert HR Specialists and other interested parties that a new
policy or change to existing policy is required or being considered. If
you have specific questions regarding this policy alert, please address
them to the contact person named above. Policy update e-mails regarding
this policy subject will be automatically generated according to the
policy communication schedule/timeline. For more information about this
policy alert or the policy communication schedule/timeline please go to
<http://vaww1.va.gov/ohrm/> http://vaww.va.gov/ohrm/

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