[AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor

  • From: "Hagans, Chad L." <Chad.Hagans@xxxxxx>
  • To: <members1@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 12:58:49 -0500

Right, but how much money does it save when you use it? J

 

I think that's the question the people making the decisions are asking,
unfortunately.

 

Now, is anyone in our field working on answering that question?

 

 

Chad Hagans, Ph.D.

Licensed Psychologist

Pensacola Joint Ambulatory Care Clinic

850-912-2000 ext. 2091

 

From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evans, F. Barton
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:55 PM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor

 

Well said, William.  

 

There is an  empirically well supported treatment method called Therapeutic
Assessment (TA) developed by Dr. Stephen Finn in Austin which integrates
psychological assessment and treatment.  There was even a study done at the
Denver VA successfully using TA with suicidal veterans. If anyone is
interested, I would be glad to send information next week.

 

 

F Barton Evans, PhD

Clinical Psychologist

VA Montana Health Care System

Bozeman CBOC

Bozeman, MT 59715

 

Clinical Professor

Department of Psychiatry and 

  Behavioral Science

George Washington University

  School of Medicine

 

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From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Crisp, William
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 11:01 AM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor

 

What sets psychologists apart and makes them valuable is their training and
ability to conduct research and do assessments. Many psychologists seem to
have ignored these assets in favor of developing things like manualized
training which opens the door for other disciplines to do our work.  In many
VA settings research and assessment are discouraged as time consuming and
less important than therapy, case management  and documentation.  Instead
psychologists should develop protocols which emphasize both assessment and
research as guides to treatment.  This could greatly improve treatment over
generic style manualized treatment and demonstrate the value of
psychologists. 

 

William Crisp, Ph.D.

Clinical Psychologist

Substance Treatment Employment Program

Central Texas Veteran's Health care System

Temple, TX

 

From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hagans, Chad L.
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:03 AM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor

 

In my opinion just another failure by psychology to demonstrate empirically
the value of what we offer over and above the value of what other mental
health professionals offer, if indeed that value exists.  I'd like to think
it does because I'm a psychologist, but to say it does without empirical
evidence would indicate bias more than anything else in my opinion.

 

It's time to get to work and demonstrate the value.  Who wants to do the
work?

 

 

Chad Hagans, Ph.D.

Licensed Psychologist

Pensacola Joint Ambulatory Care Clinic

850-912-2000 ext. 2091

 

From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Long, Stephen
[Northport]
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 3:30 PM
To: 'members1@xxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor

 

Edgardo, you sound the way I feel at times like these.

 

It is very difficult to see so much of what one has worked for (developing
skills, making what contributions you can, getting doctoral and postdoctoral
training) over a professional career to have much of that devalued, denied,
dismissed.

 

om: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kirchberg, Thomas
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:49 AM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor

 

Thank you, Edgardo.  I value your viewpoint on all the issues you raise!

 

Tom 

 

Thomas M. Kirchberg, Ph.D., ABPP

Chief Psychologist

Mental Health Service

VA Medical Center Memphis

901-523-8990 ext. 5320

 

From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Padin, Edgardo
(VHACLE)
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 9:55 PM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor

 

By interesting, I'm sure you mean discouraging.  After 20+ years in the VA,
I continue to be astounded at how so many other professions continue to have
sufficient advocacy to increase their grade levels commensurate with their
responsibilities (case in point, Social Workers continue a juggernaut rise
in grade with each new "position" created (most now seemingly needing GS-12
grades) while psychologist have an almost insurmountable task getting
approvals at the GS-14 level.  The data notwithstanding (that we have
increased the number of GS-14 positions), the success of our Hybrid T38 and
Professional Standards Boards have been underwhelming.  

 

This is not to start an old argument about our glass ceiling as
psychologists in the VA; but it is to say that this new initiative to bring
in and somehow "Qualify" Master's Level Counselors is a lobbyist win by
Master's Level Counselors and Counseling Programs to establish their niche
in the VA.  And it will ultimately be to the detriment of Psychology.  A
system of lower entry pay entry "counselors" who can rise to the GS-13 by
taking on greater responsibility means fewer Psychologists will be needed as
they become overseers of a cadre counselors doing more of the supposed
"drone" work of fully manualized and technicalized therapy.  What a Brave
New World.  Anyone who thinks this is not the case should look at the
private sector and see how lower level "Assistants" are replacing part of
the work (and the pay) of their more educated colleagues.  

 

Let me clarify here that I have nothing against Master's Level Counselors,
we have used them in Cleveland ever since I have been here.  I don't know
who is trying to kid whom whey they say that this is a "new position" of
Mental Health Counselor, but we have had GS101-11 Readjustment Counselors in
the VA for well over thee decades. They have limitations, but have worked
out well in the areas we have used them.  But what I do know is that not a
single one has ever shown that they have some secret knowledge or facility
or skill and foundational learning that is different from, greater than, or
particularly more technical in nature that Psychologists.  Usually, they
have less.  The only difference now is that some accreditation body (CACREP)
can now be added as a profession lobbying body in the VA.  Personally, I am
not amused.  

 

So, maybe we as Psychologists are too educated, maybe manualized, evidence
based protocols are making our "therapy" work too rote and straightforward
for the amount of pay we are demanding, maybe what we do, with a good
cookbook here and an evidence based therapy there, can be done by cheaper
labor.  I'm not sure; but I will say that with this cannon shot of promoting
our Master's Level colleagues, we will find out.  End of rant.  

 

From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Fischer, Pamela
(OKL)
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:52 AM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor

 

It is interesting to me that the LPC who is a program manager can be a GS 13
- the grade level that many psychologists who manage programs and have years
of experience cannot move beyond.

 

Pamela C. Fischer, Ph.D.

Director, Primary Care Mental Health #111AC

Veterans Affairs Medical Center -OKC

921 N.E. 13th Street

Oklahoma City, OK 73104

Phone: 405-456-3634

Fax:     405-456--5956

From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Shorter, George
Wiley
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:54 AM
To: members1@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AVAPL Members] Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor

 

Colleagues, 

 

As many of you have been awaiting the Qualification Standards for Mental
Health Counselors, we wanted to share these with you when we first received
it. 

 

 

George Shorter, Ph.D.

President, AVAPL

 

 


"The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war,
no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how they
perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their
country."   -George Washington

 

 

 

 



PolicyUpdate


Date:  9/29/10                                                  ID#: 2010-25

Policy Office:  Recruitment & Placement Policy Service (059)
Contact:  Kent A. Wellman (Kent.Wellman2@xxxxxx) 
Policy Subject:  VA Handbook 5005, PT II, Chapter 2, Appendix G43, Licensed
Professional Mental Health Counselor qualification standard.

Handbook Reference: 5005

The attached new VA qualification standard for Licensed Professional Mental
Health Counselor, GS-101 has been signed.  Since this is a new occupation to
VA there will NOT be an initial one-time boarding.  Additional
implementation instructions and guidance will be forthcoming from the
Veterans Health Administration (VHA).  The new Appendix G43 will be added to
the electronic version of VA Handbook 5005, Pt II, located at
http://vaww1.va.gov/ohrm/HRLibrary/Dir-Policy.htm

Questions regarding this Policy Update should be addressed to the Title 38
Staffing Policy Section, mailto:staffingpolicy059/vaco@xxxxxxx 

Status: Policy Process Step 4

Estimated date of release/implementation:  9/29/2010

This policy alert e-mail is part of a notification process that is intended
to alert HR Specialists and other interested parties that a new policy or
change to existing policy is required or being considered. If you have
specific questions regarding this policy alert, please address them to the
contact person named above. Policy update e-mails regarding this policy
subject will be automatically generated according to the policy
communication schedule/timeline. For more information about this policy
alert or the policy communication schedule/timeline please go to
<http://vaww1.va.gov/ohrm/> http://vaww.va.gov/ohrm/ 

 

 

 

 

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