atw: Re: Great Mate vs Gr8 M8 (very long and philosophical)

"For you it is an exchange of stories, for me it results in a changed
state of being."

Language is innate in humans but we are social animals. Therefore we
communicate using shared narratives. We cast ourselves in roles
pre-supplied within enduring narratives. We do this as individuals and
we do it as communities. In the 'public sphere' we tend to use very
simple narratives that do not allow for a lot of 'granularity'.=20

Matthew=20

-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christine
Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2008 1:12 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Great Mate vs Gr8 M8 (very long and philosophical)

Ning is the grown-up facebook - if that is not a contradiction in terms.

I told you I was struggling with the language to communicate the
concepts.
So please understand that I am not broadcasting at you from a point of
certainty, but attempting to collaborate in a discussion to bring light
on a
relatively unformulated feeling that I am (and incidentally many
grown-ups
on Ning are) grappling with.

For a start, I think we differ on the meaning of the words
"communication"
and "structure".

Communication to me has to involve some kind of heart space, some kind
of
loaded meaning in every word and/or some kind of change of state as a
result
of the communication.  I think you are using it to mean telling people
about
you, and listening to stories others are telling about themselves.  For
you
it is an exchange of stories, for me it results in a changed state of
being.

Structure to me is more than boxes.  If I have a box of post-it notes,
and a
box of illustrations - that is a degree of structure - everything is in
boxes.  But there is no relationship between each of the items in each
box,
and no relationship between the boxes.  So perhaps I am really talking
about
relationships.

I think your comment, "pages... are constructed by a user specifically
to
reflect that user's interests and
network connections" does support my point about I-centred communication
-
everyone is telling their own story of "I".

Your comment, "we must be aware though of the distinction between the
capability of the application and its presumed limitations (being
subjective
to each user's imagination)" may or may not be true.  If you look at
LearningTown (http://learningtown.ning.com/) and ContentWrangler
(http://thecontentwrangler.ning.com/ ), you will see really good topics
dying without reaching any outcome or conclusion - they run out of
energy
and do not bring about any changed state. I am part of several other
groups
on Ning, trying to make it do what we want it to do - so far without
much
joy.

I would hate to see these mailing lists all get gobbled up into Ning,
because they can do what Ning can't.

Christine


-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Charles Lidgard
Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2008 12:15 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Great Mate vs Gr8 M8 (very long and philosophical)

In response to Christine Kent's recent comments on Facebook.
=20

"The first key difference with the networking sites such as Face Book
and
Ning, is that there is little attempt at structure - they are random
pages
of information with lateral links to unrelated pages of information -
veryfrustrating for a brain trained to think logically and
sequentially."

=20

I am not sure I understand your point here. I'm not familiar with Ning
at
all but use Facebook regularly - what is it about Facebook's structure
that
is not logical? Part of Facebook's appeal is that each page is
structured in
a similar way - which was a departure at the time from MySpace, which
allowed for direct editing of the HTML/CSS. The pages of information
(presume you mean third party apps and the standard information shown on
each profile page) are anything but random when you consider they are
constructed by a user specifically to reflect that user's interests and
network connections. The links are related therefore to that user's
interests.=20

=20

"They cater to two activities only, passive observation, and I-centred
self-expression.  They have nothing whatever to do with communication."

=20

I totally disagree. It is my opinion that Facebook is a useful
networking
tool and an innovative centralised means of keeping in contact and
communicating with friends/acquaintances. For example, I use Facebook as
the
sole means of communication with several friends overseas. How you use
Facebook is up to you - we must be aware though of the distinction
between
the capability of the application and its presumed limitations (being
subjective to each user's imagination).

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christine Kent
Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2008 10:19 AM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Great Mate vs Gr8 M8 (very long and philosophical)

=20

I have no answers to any of this because I think the situation is much

broader than just the use of letters in words.  It is about the

communication process overall.  I am writing a course on email that
includes

a heading "Collaboration" and mentions FaceBook - in other words, the

designer has no idea what either is about.  And nor did I till I started

exploration.

=20

I found there are two classes of Web 2.0 site out there that get mixed -

collaboration sites and networking sites, with some crossover between
the

two.=20

=20

The first key difference with the networking sites such as Face Book and

Ning, is that there is little attempt at structure - they are random
pages

of information with lateral links to unrelated pages of information -
very

frustrating for a brain trained to think logically and sequentially.
They

cater to two activities only, passive observation, and I-centred

self-expression.  They have nothing whatever to do with communication.

There is no responsibility on the part of the writer to write in a way
that

is heard, and no responsibility on the part of the reader to provide

feedback or in any way react to what they have read. So the purpose for

writing has changed from communication to self-expression.

=20

There is a concept of inviting someone to be your friend, and the idea
seems

to be to collect as many "friends" as possible.  This means that the
meaning

of the word friend has changed to mean acquaintance.  That is just one

example of the conceptual substance of a word changing as a result of
the

new technology.

=20

Another word that confused me was "collaboration". I thought it meant
people

interacting in a way that changes what each does as a result of input
from

others.  When it is used in the networking space, it doesn't.  A Wiki is

apparently collaborative.  In other words, if lots of individuals add
lots

of individual entries into a common space, that is collaboration.  Maybe
my

meaning was wrong - or maybe the meaning has changed.  Again, it has
lost

the element of communication.  It has become a collection of I-centred

self-expression.

=20

However, when you look at collaborative sites such as Google Docs,
Office

Live and Windows Live, collaboration does still mean collaboration the
way I

define it.  It is still about sharing documents and doing whatever you
do

with them together.  These are currently designed for grown-ups. =20

=20

I speculate that as the current "texting" generation progresses through

life, they will take their new meanings for old words with them.  They
will

also take their "communication" processes with them - which means that
the

whole process of communication as we understand it - the
inter-relationship

of two or more people that changes each - will be a lost concept.  They
will

also be masters of lateral non-sequential thought, and the logical

analytical process that is necessary for structuring information will be
the

preserve of the few.

=20

My own analysis is all over the place at present, because this whole
field

of exploration is new to me and I am "un-learned" - ie, I don't have the

language I need to make it make sense - a great example of the
importance of

sophisticated language in the process of gaining and communicating

intellectual clarity.

=20

Christine

=20

...................................

=20

Hi Everyone!

=20

=20

Great Mate vs Gr8 M8

=20

=20

=20

What is the difference between the two and why should one set of symbols

render the other as useless when in fact they are still the same in

pronunciation and meaning and in fact nothing has really changed or has

it? Has the meaning been diminished in any way? ..............

=20

=20

=20

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG.=20

Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date:
14/04/2008

9:26 AM

=20

=20

**************************************************

To view the austechwriter archives, go to
www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter

=20

To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with
"unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).

=20

To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
modes)
go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter

=20

To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

**************************************************



**************************************************
To view the austechwriter archives, go to
www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter

To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with
"unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).

To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
modes)
go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter

To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
**************************************************

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.=20
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date:
14/04/2008
9:26 AM
=20

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.=20
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date:
14/04/2008
9:26 AM
=20

**************************************************
To view the austechwriter archives, go to
www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter

To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).

To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter

To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
**************************************************
**************************************************
To view the austechwriter archives, go to 
www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter

To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 
"unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).

To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION modes) go 
to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter

To contact the list administrator, send a message to 
austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
**************************************************

Other related posts: