atw: Re: Great Mate vs Gr8 M8 (very long and philosophical)
- From: "Christine" <christine_kent@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:11:49 +1000
Ning is the grown-up facebook - if that is not a contradiction in terms.
I told you I was struggling with the language to communicate the concepts.
So please understand that I am not broadcasting at you from a point of
certainty, but attempting to collaborate in a discussion to bring light on a
relatively unformulated feeling that I am (and incidentally many grown-ups
on Ning are) grappling with.
For a start, I think we differ on the meaning of the words "communication"
and "structure".
Communication to me has to involve some kind of heart space, some kind of
loaded meaning in every word and/or some kind of change of state as a result
of the communication. I think you are using it to mean telling people about
you, and listening to stories others are telling about themselves. For you
it is an exchange of stories, for me it results in a changed state of being.
Structure to me is more than boxes. If I have a box of post-it notes, and a
box of illustrations - that is a degree of structure - everything is in
boxes. But there is no relationship between each of the items in each box,
and no relationship between the boxes. So perhaps I am really talking about
relationships.
I think your comment, "pages... are constructed by a user specifically to
reflect that user's interests and
network connections" does support my point about I-centred communication -
everyone is telling their own story of "I".
Your comment, "we must be aware though of the distinction between the
capability of the application and its presumed limitations (being subjective
to each user's imagination)" may or may not be true. If you look at
LearningTown (http://learningtown.ning.com/) and ContentWrangler
(http://thecontentwrangler.ning.com/ ), you will see really good topics
dying without reaching any outcome or conclusion - they run out of energy
and do not bring about any changed state. I am part of several other groups
on Ning, trying to make it do what we want it to do - so far without much
joy.
I would hate to see these mailing lists all get gobbled up into Ning,
because they can do what Ning can't.
Christine
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Charles Lidgard
Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2008 12:15 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Great Mate vs Gr8 M8 (very long and philosophical)
In response to Christine Kent's recent comments on Facebook.
"The first key difference with the networking sites such as Face Book and
Ning, is that there is little attempt at structure - they are random pages
of information with lateral links to unrelated pages of information -
veryfrustrating for a brain trained to think logically and sequentially."
I am not sure I understand your point here. I'm not familiar with Ning at
all but use Facebook regularly - what is it about Facebook's structure that
is not logical? Part of Facebook's appeal is that each page is structured in
a similar way - which was a departure at the time from MySpace, which
allowed for direct editing of the HTML/CSS. The pages of information
(presume you mean third party apps and the standard information shown on
each profile page) are anything but random when you consider they are
constructed by a user specifically to reflect that user's interests and
network connections. The links are related therefore to that user's
interests.
"They cater to two activities only, passive observation, and I-centred
self-expression. They have nothing whatever to do with communication."
I totally disagree. It is my opinion that Facebook is a useful networking
tool and an innovative centralised means of keeping in contact and
communicating with friends/acquaintances. For example, I use Facebook as the
sole means of communication with several friends overseas. How you use
Facebook is up to you - we must be aware though of the distinction between
the capability of the application and its presumed limitations (being
subjective to each user's imagination).
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christine Kent
Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2008 10:19 AM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Great Mate vs Gr8 M8 (very long and philosophical)
I have no answers to any of this because I think the situation is much
broader than just the use of letters in words. It is about the
communication process overall. I am writing a course on email that includes
a heading "Collaboration" and mentions FaceBook - in other words, the
designer has no idea what either is about. And nor did I till I started
exploration.
I found there are two classes of Web 2.0 site out there that get mixed -
collaboration sites and networking sites, with some crossover between the
two.
The first key difference with the networking sites such as Face Book and
Ning, is that there is little attempt at structure - they are random pages
of information with lateral links to unrelated pages of information - very
frustrating for a brain trained to think logically and sequentially. They
cater to two activities only, passive observation, and I-centred
self-expression. They have nothing whatever to do with communication.
There is no responsibility on the part of the writer to write in a way that
is heard, and no responsibility on the part of the reader to provide
feedback or in any way react to what they have read. So the purpose for
writing has changed from communication to self-expression.
There is a concept of inviting someone to be your friend, and the idea seems
to be to collect as many "friends" as possible. This means that the meaning
of the word friend has changed to mean acquaintance. That is just one
example of the conceptual substance of a word changing as a result of the
new technology.
Another word that confused me was "collaboration". I thought it meant people
interacting in a way that changes what each does as a result of input from
others. When it is used in the networking space, it doesn't. A Wiki is
apparently collaborative. In other words, if lots of individuals add lots
of individual entries into a common space, that is collaboration. Maybe my
meaning was wrong - or maybe the meaning has changed. Again, it has lost
the element of communication. It has become a collection of I-centred
self-expression.
However, when you look at collaborative sites such as Google Docs, Office
Live and Windows Live, collaboration does still mean collaboration the way I
define it. It is still about sharing documents and doing whatever you do
with them together. These are currently designed for grown-ups.
I speculate that as the current "texting" generation progresses through
life, they will take their new meanings for old words with them. They will
also take their "communication" processes with them - which means that the
whole process of communication as we understand it - the inter-relationship
of two or more people that changes each - will be a lost concept. They will
also be masters of lateral non-sequential thought, and the logical
analytical process that is necessary for structuring information will be the
preserve of the few.
My own analysis is all over the place at present, because this whole field
of exploration is new to me and I am "un-learned" - ie, I don't have the
language I need to make it make sense - a great example of the importance of
sophisticated language in the process of gaining and communicating
intellectual clarity.
Christine
...................................
Hi Everyone!
Great Mate vs Gr8 M8
What is the difference between the two and why should one set of symbols
render the other as useless when in fact they are still the same in
pronunciation and meaning and in fact nothing has really changed or has
it? Has the meaning been diminished in any way? ..............
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