atw: Re: FW: Looks good, but ....

I used to be an ESL teacher and was a language evaluator for the Canadian
federal government for many years. We tested Anglophones and francophone
for competency in their second language (French/English). I tested
francophone for their ability to carry out their work at a functional or
integral level. 
Under this test, a person who could perform their work at a functional
level was someone who was able to manipulate the target language to
perform an act of communication at a specific competency level related to
their work. Language tasks at the functional level included being able to
relate a story in the past, describe what their work involved. We would
use role-plays to test their ability to relate factual information,
resolve simple problems like a change in schedule, etc. There was also a
reading and writing component utilising the same linguistic tasks.

Integral competency level testing included all the functional tests as
well as complex linguistic tasks such as persuading management to change a
policy, etc. A successful candidate was deemed to have an integral
proficiency, which was described as being 'native like'.

I won't bore you with the details. Under the test I used to administer,
the person would have fallen somewhere between high functional and low
integral in terms of the writing skills. 

Unfortunately, even an integral level of proficiency is not really high
enough to work as a translator without proper training. The translator
doesn't have the stylistic skills to convert persuasion language from the
source to the target language.







> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fullerton, Elizabeth [mailto:Elizabeth.Fullerton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 29 April 2004 09:34
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: FW: Looks good, but ....
> 
> 
> Michael Lewis:
> 
> > people=20
> > often finish up writing as a reflection of self image rather than as a
=
> way of=20
> > transmitting ideas.
> 
> Though I've never thought of it that way, this is very true. But then, =
> so is spoken language, even when it's supposedly formal. Then you need =
> to consider the difference between spoken language when you can see the
=
> speaker's body language and when you can't - it all boils down to =
> expressing your identity in the end, I suppose. Even in tech writing =
> writers have preferences for the ways in which they express themselves =
> (and hence ideas).
> 
> 
> > Do you tend to write French in an English-y sort of way, or vice =
> versa?
> 
> I anglicise, unless I have learned that particular form (I can often =
> make a good guess) - I have no other terms of reference. What is =
> interesting to me now is that I am starting to learn Spanish, which is =
> similar to French in that they are both Latin languages, but also =
> different in ways that sometimes trip me up, for example if a word is =
> spelled the same as a French word I tend to expect it to be the French =
> word, because I know it's not English...
> 
> And this brings me to Robert Kloiber's point about localising to Latin =
> American Spanish in translation. The French are quite anal about the =
> language not changing, so when you learn French it's most likely to be =
> Standard French, and you can learn about regional dialects with further
=
> study - ie you have to deliberatly set out to learn it. My Spanish notes
=
> are all covered with "used in only in Spain" or "only in South America",
=
> or "you can also spell it this way in Argentina". Which is a completely
=
> approach to that of the French. And should keep me on my toes if I =
> choose to go further than evening classes.
> 
> 
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