atw: OT - a rant in reply to a Steve H rant I've just become aware of - long

To the list - my apologies in advance.
I've just been made aware of a lengthy diatribe by Steve Hudson where he has
taken a number of professional swipes at myself and another list member (but
mainly me) and I refuse to just to let it pass as I usually do with his
nonsense.
So, if you do not want to witness a pi##ing contest hit the delete key NOW.
If you do not want to see some naughty words copied from ancient emails, hit
the delete key NOW.
For the rest... read on for my reply to Steve's comments published on the
list a month ago. I know this will not sit well with the members of his
clique but life's tough like that.
I have left the reason for this email attached at the bottom so please read
there first to understand why I feel I must reply.
(And again, my apologies for the lateness of my reply.)

Hi Steve (H),
I refused to read your never-ending rubbish for a few months so I had a
'Hudson filter' in place. As such, I didn't get this piece of work until
today and while not surprised, given your unprofessional and childish antics
in the past, I'm rather surprised that you rubbished me numerous times while
responding to a topic that had nothing to do with me (and did so when I
couldn't see it because of my filter).
Deb was commenting on the people ridiculing those having trouble posting to
the list..... and I don't recall being one of them. Even so, you dragged
your little soapbox out and felt free to take a few swings without any
provocation on my part.
As I have only now become aware of it (a month late I may add - and again,
my apologies to the list for this late reply), I just cannot let your little
diatribe go unanswered. So here it is...
Steve, I laughed and laughed at your hypocrisy.
You are by far the biggest grandstander and one of the most abusive persons
on this list and you rarely help anyone without some form of self promotion
or potential 'earner' involved. You have been doing this for years - which
is one of the reasons why I have criticised you in the past. Some other
reasons that you have received adverse comments from me were because of your
vitriolic and unprofessional dealings with many of the list members
including myself.
At every occasion you self promote, whether justified or not and you have an
opinion on absolutely everything, whether right or wrong and when we
disagree with you, oh how evil we all are, how hateful, how wrong, etc..
This becomes extremely annoying after a while.
Please understand that I don't hate you Steve, I really don't care about you
one way or the other but if you have a go at me publicly I will respond.
Note the word RESPOND. Personally though, I think a lot of your vehemence
comes from your inability to deal with criticism.
As for your abilities, obviously you know VBA but I disagree with your
writing style and many of the comments you make. I also think some of your
advice is less than helpful but usually I haven't commented because I just
couldn't be bothered getting into an argument. When I dare to disagree, you
become nasty and spiteful and start postulating that the likes of BJA and
Brian Clarke are the worst members of the list etc. etc. but then, even when
I agree with you Steve, you make deriding comments... oh Steve, there is
just no pleasing you.
As for helping people, yes you do and you do it a lot (God Steve to the
rescue again in many cases), but I just wish you would do it 'quietly' like
the rest of us do it instead of in the self-aggrandising way you currently
do it.
In relation to helping people out, you infer that I do not. This is
incorrect and for the record Steve, for years I publicly offered technical
(and other advice) on both techwhirlers and austechwriter (check the
archives of both) but now rarely comment publicly on technical issues
because if I see the correct answer on the list, there is no point and even
when I do answer, I usually just do it privately particularly on the Framers
list where this is the default. I just don't duplicate an answer in a more
expansive way to self-promote my 'knowledge'. I have helped many in the past
and will continue to do so without any self-promotion but I still reserve
the right to read the existing replies before doing so and will respond at
MY leisure, not yours.
As for abusing people et al., unlike you Steve, I am not abusive on the list
and over the years have only had cause to criticise members on a handful of
occasions. It's just a pity that several of those occasions have been in
relation to your behaviour.
As for your comments regarding five years ago, I had completely forgotten
but a quick look at the Yahoo archives showed the following comments coming
from you Steve on March 8 2001 so I guess this is what you are referring to:
"I still fail to see one post from myself saying either "If you cant do this
you are an idiot" or "Your tool choice sux"
Its fuckwits like yourself that make these groups almost unbearable. So just
quietly, go fuck yourself."

Could that be it Steve? Or was it this one later that day:
"A) I didnt say I was the ONLY one
b) I didnt say shit about what you do or dont do re solutions
c) i) I launched a flame to a flame - and ii) you dont seem to like being
flamed either5 - at leastt IT WAS OFF LIST FUCK HEAD"

While I appreciate you sent these gems personally to Andrew (E) and he
'accidentally' sent them to the list, it shows you were out of line with the
language so you shouldn't have been surprised at the response. Particularly
when you look at Andrew's comments which were not abusive.
Anyway, that was five years ago. So what you are now saying is that you have
simply been holding a grudge for five years over my response to those
inappropriate comments on your part.
You need to move on Steve. Your current actions are enough, so there is no
need to go back five years.
Feel free to swipe back Steve but know that my 'Hudson filter' is off now so
I'll see the reply for a change.
And Steve, I'm so glad you can make a codpiece for yourself. Just make sure
to leave room for your ears.
Regards,
Bruce Ashley

From: "Steve Hudson" <adslyy5g@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 01:20:51 +1100
Dear Deb,

For years now I have consistently refused to recommend this list to anyone
for that precise reason and more. You can verify anytime you like by using
Google to search for posts from "Steve Hudson Word Heretic", if you override
the built in filters there are well over 5 figures worth of messages there
to check on.

You could also ask onlist, as several members have made personal requests to
me to promote it and I described in clear terms why I will not.

Yes, I tell the BJA's of the world where the can park their unicycles and
what they can do with them. All I can say is, when under fire, the troops
should always take cover and return fire. Sitting in your bunkers getting
pissed while the enemy rolls in is not an option.

Tech whirlers can be bad - especially any platonic discussions (which have
stagnated for the last 10 years into a set of 12 standard messages) - but it
does no come close to the hate that the BJA's etc of this list generate.

Recently the charge against me on this list was that I was being the
truculent one. I responded if you want to crap in my basket, I will throw it
out straight back at you. Gain, peruse the history. I have a history of
trying to provide people workable solutions. Many list posters here have a
history of putting people down.

To revise ad nausibus:

* This list gets recc. world-wide because it covers many topics others don't
dare to brave

Eg, Unis in France asking my advice on whether to advisetheir students to
follow the contents


* This list is described by many as abusive

Eg, most foreigners who join the list: yanks, poms etc. Some content judged
by these people as abusive isn't, as they don't understand the Aussie
psyche. Eg, Mickey taking offence at me saying "I have said before I tried
the common anti-spyware stuff and it failed miserably" - I was being terse -
not unfair. A fair % is, as pointed out by yourself, very abusive. Eg "What
the hell do you think you are trying to do? Buy a real product... MS sucks"


* This list has numerous posters whose complete content is worth either
nothing, or actually impedes your progress

Eg BJA, Brian Clarke. These people offer their opinion without any
justification or support, abuse people who disagree with them, and find red
herrings in every argument. BJA's last post agreed with me - please find
ANYTHING in it that actually contributed something to the argument rather
than rehashing what was already said. In my books, this is an attempt at
grandstanding through confabulation.

When asked a specific question to which they proclaim to know the answer,
they hold their silence. In other words, they are here to put people down
without contributing anything to the existing body of knowledge. Now I have
been involved with pure reasearch for so many years that I find this
attitude completely disgusting, and I will never publicly admit to being a
member of this list. At best, I describe myself as someone with too may
mates on this list to not subscribe to it despite my better judgement.


______________________________________________

Now, all that having been said, let us look at the other side of the
argument. Indeed, it is this very facet of my posts that I find exceedingly
frustrating with others posts: there is no counter argument. Everything has
pros and cons. When a post speaks of pros only - you know you need to
research the cons yaself.

* Aussies have a 'unhealthy' (extremely large) representation at technical
levels across scope of business. Yes, that's right - you need an expert on
something - chances are 1/2 of them planet-wide are Aussies. A % of this is
expressed through this very list.

* This is an unmoderated list and we all get what we deserve. Complaining
about the status quo aint gunna do shit because the BJA's and Clarke's of
the world are still free to post their denigrations whenever they feel like
it with no judicary. You can't stop em, so stop whinging - they aint
listening and never will be :-) (So why this email Steve? :-) "Coz I aint
happy bout it and holding my silence will achieve less than my noise will.")

Beg these DH's all you like, tomorrow they will still post their offensive
crap whenever they feel like it. What can u do about it? Not much. So why
stress? Email filters are a wonderful device. You can easily filter Bja and
Clarke's posts to improve your S2N (signal to noise) ratio.

* People do get assistance with their required solution set despite these
circumstances.

* This list has numerous contributors whose posts it is always a delight to
read, even if the factual content is somewhat lacking. Of course, the king
of this is Mickey :-) Mickey - you ARE full of **** and we all love you for
it :-) You regularly lapse into proper help - but we forgive these mild
transgressions :-)

_____________________________________________

For some reason, this list has enormous amounts of jealousy present. Some of
this is sheer hubris. Some of it is a screwed-up representation of the tall
poppy syndrome : cut down everyone else whilst I fertilise myself. Of
course, we all know that manure makes the best fertiliser and so often these
sort of posts contain little but well-decomposed manure. I have a much
'rawer' and thus 'precise' description of this, but I hesitate at using it
in such polite company.

Yes, I get pissed off at this list and regularly let fly. As I said many
times before (Yes, I am talking about you BJA - person for whom See You Next
Tuesday  is an understatement - I hope you rot in hell) - I have NEVER seen
a list where one list member does their damnedest to get another list member
sacked by directly ringing their place of employment and causing trouble.
Who paid for that phone call Bruce Wanker? Oh - your boss - what a surprise.
You can't drop dead soon enough for my satisfaction.

Why?

Oh my god - I try to help people. Quick - shoot me now. Maybe I should chuck
a Bruce and forward the five billion and six complaints against him (posted
from his employer's account natch) to his employer and demand my pound of
flesh closest to the heart. Alas, I cannot live life like that - I am
multi-cellular. It's a bit unfair like that: The BJA's of the world screw
with you, and you don't screw back. Ah well, Christianity...

Fortunately, the last 5 or so years Bruce has been unable to replicate this
stunt. Mainly because I have a) refused to subscribe to this list from my
place of work because of i) no wish for BJA wankers to repeat themselves re
the sacking ATTEMPT (yes, you failed you cockroach didn't you) and ii) I
don't get paid to help you guys and b) I have been self-employed for most of
this period. Yeah Bruce "outa work" - now - can anyone else here say that
the US government is a major client of theirs? No, not really. I am quite
happy being "out of work" if that's the case! Let alone if you want me to
reel off the uni's that teach my stuff and that I have developed courseware
for on request...

I really wish it was elsewise - I keep praying for it to be so, but it aint.
I really feel that a large number of posters are only here for
self-aggrandisement at the expense of others and I am deeply concerned about
this attitude. Yet - this is a charge oft brought against me. All I can say:
my posts offer solutions. The solution offered here is moderation. No-one is
prepared to commit to this.

What do we do? I shall leave my personal speculation regarding getting
medieval on their ass with a large lump of sharpened metal for the crows.

Speaking of which - if anyone needs arms or armour made... I have many
talents :-) Mail, plate, cuirass, axes, swords, poinards, helms, gauntlets
(yech!) or codpieces ...


Steve Hudson

Word Heretic, Sydney, Australia
Tricky stuff with Word or words for you.
www.wordheretic.com
ABN: 86 453 419 554
"Qualified Good Tech Writer Dude"
Free Association of Words
Without prejudice





-----Original Message-----
From: Deborah Cross

Why is it that whenever someone has trouble posting to the list we get a =
whole series of smart comments? =20 Not a really friendly, welcoming
atmosphere is it?

I am going to assume that some helpful people have responded to Stuart = off
list with assistance.
I can't remember the exact way to fix it, but it has something to do = with
your email sending out in a format freelists doesn't understand.  = You need
to change to Format|Encoding|Western European (ISO)=20 make sure UTF8
Compliant is not selected.

You want to be sending to the list as plain text, not Microsoft based or =
rich text or HTML.

Some people have had trouble changing their settings in a corporate =
environment and had to ask for help from their IT support staff.

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References:
atw: Help for DQoNCg0KDQo+IEJ5IHRoZSB3YXks emails <msg00184.html>


Bruce Ashley
Senior Technical Writer
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