[atlantaprog] Re: Cheapness

I'll also agree with Wheat that $5 is a lowball figure for music of this
caliber but I do (reluctantly) think we should stick with it for the time
being.  I don't think raising it to $7-10 would hurt the attendance _from
ARIA members_ any but since this money is mostly coming from and going back
to ARIA bands (and CJ's) right now it wouldn't help much either.  Any
increase could possibly hurt casual non-ARIA attendance, which is what we
really need to increase.  Now those 3 couples who John saw leaving upon
hearing of the $5 cover probably are a non-issue, as they must have been
expecting no cover at all (who is going to accept a $3-4 cover but not $5?)
and obviously we can't have it free because CJ's wants their $100.  Nothing
can be done about the people who want in for free, but if the cover is
raised any that could become more of a hindrance.  As for the idea of
"making it worth the band's while",  greater attendance and interest is the
key to that.  Getting a living wage from this is not in the cards-- KL has 6
people, PP has 3, so $100 apiece is $900 to the bands plus $100 to CJ's
which with $1000/45 paid audience would require a cover of $22.  So we're in
the pocket change/promotional model, where a $5 cover works fine.  Now if we
can get the attendance up to 80 and start doing this on a weekend night then
it might be feasible to have an increase of a couple bucks, but I'd be leery
of it before then.  As John alluded to, getting people in the door, selling
them cds and making them into fans is the long-term solution.

On a side note, I'm not sure the parking situation in Buckhead is a
deterrent to us or an indication that we can charge more since people are
already budgeting their cost for the evening higher anyway.  Why?  Many of
the casual walkins have already paid to park just to come to Buckhead as a
destination, whatever they're doing, and that cost is not associated with
part of the cost to come see ARIA bands.  Then you have the occasional/first
time fans of a particular band, and when they see the ad or hear about the
gig they're going to thinking about the cover charge, not necessarily the
parking, gas, etc.  Psychologically, I think the cover charge is going to be
the determining factor in whether someone comes out or stays home.

Thanks for posting the info about record costs and inflation.  I wondered
about that and you confirmed my suspicion.  Recorded music is a good value
these days w.r.t. inflation, but people always seem to think it's too high,
like the price of gasoline.  (Over the last 50 years the price of gas has
been relatively stagnant, not to mention the fact that Europeans pay for a
liter what we pay for a gallon, yet every time it goes up a nickel it's like
the end of the world.
http://www.energy.cted.wa.gov/Indicators99/Indicator24.htm )  I think the
answer to your question about the perceived value of live music has to do
with the abundance of entertainment options today as compared with 1982-- 
vcrs, tivo, video games, internet, cable/satellite, even car cd players (I
never saw an LP player in a car!)  and also the detrimental effect on club
revenues of raising the drinking age to 21.  When did that happen in GA?
'83, '84?  There are an awful lot of live music venues in Toronto, and
Ontario has a DA of 19.  18-25 are the prime club-going years...  Probably
suburban sprawl has something to do with it also.  Most of the clubs are
ITP, so a lot of people have further to drive to see live music than they
did in 1982, which makes it less likely and perhaps the clubs have to charge
a lower cover to compensate?

Brian
Lord Only


From: "john" <7strbass@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>


> i would advise not increasing the price.  i saw 3 couples turn away
> from the ticket area and leave the room upon hearing the price.
> this is about exposure, right?  i'd play for free if it got more people
> in to hear me.  shoot, that's what i've been doing  since i started
> playing original music.  that's not to say the money is not important,
> that's only to say that i'd rather make money selling my band's cds
> and other merchandise to folks who already like us than to try and
> get a few extra bucks from folks in the door.
>
> however, i admire wheat for bringing this topic up and recognizing
> the general injustice of the situation. :-)
> ___________________
> john turner
>
> http://lordonly.net
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Wheat Williams" <wheat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> > I enjoyed the show at CJ's on Thursday. Permit me to rant a bit.
> >
> > The ticket price for the show was $5.00. That is far too low. For a
> > show like this you should charge $10 or even $15. There is no way two
> > bands are going to make it worth their while at $5 a head from forty
> > members of the paying public. An extra $5 from each person isn't much
> > to ask.
> >
> > Heck, I knew this was Buckhead. I paid $5.00 just to park a block down
> > the street. If I had parked in the lot outside CJ's I would have had to
> > pay $10.00. When I go to get entertained I expect to pay money and I'm
> > glad to do it.
> >
> > In 1982 when I left high school, the cover charge for a show like yours
> > at a club like CJ's would be $5.00. Well, I've got news for you--$5 in
> > 1982 money would be about $12 in today's money. So why is the
> > unadjusted dollar price the same?
> >
> > Why has inflation proceeded apace, yet the club-going public is
> > unwilling to pay bands what they are worth?
> >
> > The definition of value in a capitalist society is "whatever the market
> > will bear". I think we should be willing to bear a bit more. Here's my
> > advice. If you are going to be in ARIA (band member or fan) and you are
> > going to commit to come to the shows, you should be willing to support
> > the scene with a little more of your hard-earned cash per ticket.
> >
> > On October 12, 2003 the New York Times published an article giving a
> > historical perspective on the "reformation" of the music industry due
> > to the pressures exerted by Internet piracy.
> >
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/12/arts/music/12HARM.html
> >
> > They noted that many people who swap stolen music on the Internet argue
> > that they are somehow morally justified in doing so because CDs today
> > cost too much money. The New York Times blew that argument out of the
> > water with this chart:
> >
> > Album: Frank Sinatra: Songs for Swingin' Lovers
> > Year of Release: 1955
> > Estimated original price: $3.50
> > Price adjusted for inflation: $24
> > Format: LP
> >
> > Album: The Beatles, Revolver
> > Year of Release: 1966
> > Estimated original price: $4.50
> > Price adjusted for inflation: $26
> > Format: LP
> >
> > Album: Eminem, The Eminem Show
> > Year of Release: 2002
> > Estimated original price: $15
> > Price adjusted for inflation: $15.50 (or free via illegal download)
> > Format: CD (or illegal mp3 download)
> >
> > -----------------------
> > Wheat Williams
> > wheat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
>

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