I have done it too long by eye and have not tried Hoopmaster yet. My wife Ginny does not feel confident by eye. She uses Hoop Mates and does fine. Mike & Ginny Walker Ginny's Place, LLC Golden, Colorado walkermaj@xxxxxxxxxxx 303-278-2401(Office) 303-808-7387(Mike's Cell) 303-808-5358 (Ginny's Cell)