[amayausers] Re: Thread Feed

Herb,
        I have run things with a Material thickness of 3 or 4 and experienced
thread breaks.  My thread breaks were not caused by too tight of thread
tension as if you pulled on each end of a piece of thread until it broke,
but more so because there was too loose of tension caused by too much
thread.  I call these types of thread breaks.. "Thread tares" as if the
thread were to get tangled up in something and that something tares the
thread in half.  In this case, if there is too much thread, the thread can
get tangled around the rotary hook until it tares in half and it gives a
loud popping sound.
        This can be caused by either the bobbin has some lint trapped under the
tension leaf resulting in little or no tension or the thread feed wheel has
a groove in it and the thread is not being pinched under it.  I've also seen
where the thread was getting rolled off the side of the thread feed wheel
because the red top roller was damaged and not rolling correctly.
        You know, I've even run some garments at a 2 or even a 1 MT and had good
results.  Although not very often.
Figure this, at the beginning of a stitch, the take up lever goes down and
releases 3 inches of thread in the thread path.  The needle pushes this
thread down to the rotary hook where the rotary hook takes that 3 inches and
wraps it around the bobbin case.  As the thread comes off the opposite side
of the rotary hook, the take up lever proceeds to rise up to bring up that
original 3 inches of thread.  Remember that one end of the thread is tied at
the garment (the last stitch) and the other end is tied to (or pinched at)
the thread feed roller.  The take up lever is responsible for pulling the
stitch tight (or taught).  If the thread feed roller is not holding on to
the thread, or the bobbin is not holding on to it's portion of the thread
under the garment, then no movement of the take up lever is going to pull
the stitch tight.  Try tying your shoe laces with only one hand!!  You'll
wind up using your teeth to hold the other end.  The small amount of thread
that is spit out by the thread feed system should equal the amount of thread
that is going to be left behind in the resulting stitch (in the garment).
If a fraction of excess thread is left over with one stitch, then that will
increase with each following stitch until there is enough excess thread
available to get tangled and then ultimately, "torn" - not pulled tight to
it's breaking point due to not enough thread .  As the take up lever is at
the top of it's stoke, the bobbin is then holding on to the thread and
letting enough bobbin slip out because the take up lever's stoke is stronger
than the bobbin case's tension.  If the bobbin's tension is stronger than
the thread's strength, then the thread will break under the excess tension.
Or else the fabric will be squeezed real tight by the stitch.  I could go on
and on.  I hope I'm saying this clearly.
        It's amazing to me how much precision is necessary to make one stitch,
especially at high speeds, and yet most people take their machines for
granted.  The more I learn, the more I'm impressed.
        Hope this helps.
Ed

Ed & Maralien Orantes
E.M. Broidery
900 Terry Parkway, Ste. 200
New Orleans, La. 70056
504-EMBROID ery (504-362-7643)

-----Original Message-----
From: amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of HK Acree
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:29 PM
To: amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Feed


Ed,
Appreciate the feed back. I have a few windshirts to do (148) and am
starting with all new goodies. Your input on the bobbin tension was very
interesting and therein  may be key to this. Maybe the light bulb just came
on. The relationship between the top and bottom tensions is really all we
are dealing with whether it be Actifeed or disc tensioning. Without making
this way to complicated, At a MT of 4 I get popping thread breaks and what I
would say is not quite looping, but close. Drop to a 3 and begin to
experience f           rayingthreadbreaks.Havenotchangedthebobbinatthispoint
but from your post my thinking is to stay at a 3 and loosen the bobbin
slightly. What say you mud bug buddy?

Herb
----- Original Message -----
From: "E. Orantes" <e3m@xxxxxxx>
To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:18 AM
Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Feed


> Herb,
> I haven't had a great deal of experience with the "thread feed fine
> tuning"
> feature under the settings tab.  Although I think it's great to have it
> there in case we need it, I feel it's one of those bells or whistles that
> are not practical for our needs.  My thoughts on this is that a MT of 3 or
> 4
> or whatever whole number you choose, usually does the trick simply because
> the bobbin is capable of "taking up the slack" (figure of speech) in this
> area.  The bobbin should be allowed to slip through the bobbin case so
> that
> the bobbin will dispense as needed after the thread feed system has
> delivered all it's going to deliver.  Meaning that if the thread feed
> system
> was set too low, and there wasn't enough thread for that stitch, then the
> bobbin will have a greater length.  If the MT is set too high, chances are
> that you won't see any bobbin because it wasn't necessary as the excess
> thread wrapped around to the back side of the garment where the bobbin
> usually is.  If the thread feed is even higher than that, the exceptional
> amount of excess thread has no where to go so it sits up on top and bottom
> of the garment creating "Looping".
> Now there are a couple of things that can change what we think is
> controlled by the Material Thickness.  Not only do you have the setting in
> software (3,4,...) but if the bobbin tension is incorrect or simply dirty,
> or the thread feed roller is dirty or has grooves, or if the thread path
> is
> obstructed, or if the fabric is moving due to stretching or flagging,
> etc...
> But I know you know all about these issues already.
> My question for you is that you say if you step up to a number 4 in MT,
> then the sewing looks like crap.  How would you describe the crap in
> question?  (If you know what I mean.)
> I would think that using that "fine tuning" feature would be used for
> something you were going to run a lot of, and had all new and clean parts
> (specifically thread feed rollers).  Features like this and the "settings
> by
> color" option are not practical if you are only running, as we call them,
> "onesies".  If I were going to run three of the same thing or more, I
> might
> think about how to optimize my time by utilizing these features.  If you
> wind up playing with the fine tuning thread feed feature, my only
> recommendation to you is to practice to get an idea of what a change in
> number will result on the garment and be sure to use new thread feed
> rollers
> and have a clean bobbin case with correct bobbin tension.  I say this
> because you don't want to have variations caused by other areas when you
> are
> focusing on only one.
> Best of luck to you.
> Ed
>
> Ed & Maralien Orantes
> E.M. Broidery
> 900 Terry Parkway, Ste. 200
> New Orleans, La. 70056
> 504-EMBROID ery (504-362-7643)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of HK Acree
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:52 AM
> To: amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [amayausers] Thread Feed
>
>
> ATTENTION TECHIES,
> Question is if I set my MT at a 4 and then go to settings (Amaya OS) and
> adjust the thread feed to take some thread away, how much difference is
> there between say a 50 and a 60. Is there any way to determine what % of
> change you have just created. I have a situation where a 4 breaks thread,
> little to no bobbin showing so I drop to a 3 but the finished product
> looks
> like crap. Go to settings and add thread feed but I don't have enough
> experience with this to find the "sweet spot". Maybe I am being too
> conservative in the amount of change. Is a MT of 3 and thread feed of 40
> actually a 4?????  ANYONE???  (Need more Experience)
>
> Herb
> Royal Embroidery
>
>
>

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