[amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks

Rod,

I was wondering if you ever rest :)

Aaron Sargent
The Linen Barn
linen@xxxxxxxxxxx
541-770-2957
Medford, OR
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rod or Sharon" <springer37@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 11:50 AM
Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks


> To all,
> Just as a clarification, we are talking about oiling two entirely 
> different
> items here. Roland is referring to oiling "Needle bars" and also referring
> to oiling the reciprocator shaft.
>
> Needle bar lubrication only takes a couple of drops of oil at the top pad
> and a couple drops of oil on the bottom pad per bar. The reciprocator
> specification is to add 25 drops of oil at the proper time and extra oil 
> as
> needed if the machine is in constant use.
>
> Rod springer
>
> Embroidery Cottage
> Rod & Sharon Springer
> Melco Amaya Tech & Trainer
> Design Shop Pro+ Digitizing
>
> Boise, ID  83713
> 208-938-3038
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Roland R. Irish III" <signman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 12:33 PM
> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>
>
>> When you see oil soaked 'fuzzies' on your hat brim, or falling into
>> the sewout area in a hoop, then you know it is way past time to clean
>> up above the needles...our problem hasn't been with excess oil as Rob
>> gets-we were still only oiling the 'ten' drops recommended until we
>> had a needle shaft get 'stuck' once. Service tech told us to add
>> extra oil up in the V slot, and also go take off the magnetic cover
>> and put 2 drops of oil on each shaft directly when it started to get
>> noisy. Problem was caused by running the same colors all the time on
>> the same needles-right next to each other. We had black, white, red,
>> gold, blue as the first 5 needles and were doing a ton of fire dept
>> or school mascots-all using the same colors. This was causing the
>> shafts to over heat, suck up more oil, and then run out of oil long
>> before the service timer called for more. Now with the upgrade
>> calling for 25 drops, big difference! Also, we no longer put the most
>> used colors next to each other-we have them separated and also move
>> the position every time we put a new spool in. Like rotating
>> tires...change the location of the ones that get the most use. When
>> we do the 2 million service, we add 5-6 drops of oil in the V, then
>> when it calls for it, the 25 drops. No more noisy shafts running!
>> Roland
>> On Mar 25, 2006, at 2:27 PM, Rod or Sharon wrote:
>>
>>> Mary,
>>>
>>> Sorry if it sounded like I made it sound like you had to oiled the
>>> reciprocater directly all the time. As you wanted to know what it
>>> was ,I
>>> described how you could get a good look at it and see just how the
>>> whole
>>> system worked. Whenever I have the front covers off,  I do soak up
>>> the pads
>>> with oil directly during the inspection process.
>>>
>>> The newest spects on oiling the reciprocator is to add "25" drops
>>> of oil in
>>> the oiling channel when the pop-up for this procedure is required.
>>> But once
>>> again, if the machine is running constantly and/or the machine sits
>>> for long
>>> periods of time and is not used, it is only wise to add a few more
>>> drops of
>>> oil in the channel to keep the system wet with oil..
>>>
>>> At the bottom of the reciprocator shaft, there is an oil soaker pad
>>> that
>>> will collect any excess oil to keep it from running out the bottom and
>>> soiling a garment. Anytime I have the covers off the front of a
>>> machine I
>>> always take a screwdriver and tissue paper, paper towel, etc, and
>>> try to
>>> soak out the oil from this pad by squeezing the paper towel against
>>> it with
>>> the screwdriver. If this is not done periodically and the machine
>>> is kept
>>> well oiled, then there is the possibility that the pad will/could
>>> become
>>> saturated and oil will have no where to go but down and down is
>>> toward the
>>> needle and what ever you are sewing on...
>>>
>>> Rod Springer
>>>
>>> Embroidery Cottage
>>> Rod & Sharon Springer
>>> Melco Amaya Tech & Trainer
>>> Design Shop Pro+ Digitizing
>>>
>>> Boise, ID  83713
>>> 208-938-3038
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Shuffletown Embroidery" <shuffemb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 11:51 AM
>>> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Rod,
>>>> I found the reference to the reciprocator lubrication in the 2 M
>>>> maintenance. According to my manual, it is lubricated indirectly by
>>>> putting
>>>> 24 drops of oil in the v-channel. It sounds like you are talking
>>>> about a
>>>> direct lubrication of the reciprocator. Or is the indirect one all
>>>> that is
>>>> needed?
>>>> Thanks for taking the time to explain this to me.
>>>> Mary
>>>>
>>>> Mary Buckle
>>>> Shuffletown Embroidery
>>>> Charlotte, NC
>>>> 704-398-1273
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rod or Sharon
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:47 PM
>>>> To: amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>>>>
>>>> Mary,
>>>> Each needle bar has an attached stud that rides along the
>>>> alignment groove
>>>> in the black front cover plates behind the needle case. When a color
>>>> change
>>>> is selected by the machine, it moves the needle case to a new
>>>> position and
>>>> selects a new needle bar to be the "active" needle
>>>>
>>>> The stud on this needle bar slides into a set of jaws that is
>>>> lined up
>>>> with
>>>> the groove in the plastic front covers in the center of the
>>>> machine behind
>>>> the needle case. These jaws are called the reciprocator. The
>>>> reciprocator
>>>> assembly is mounted on a hollow metal tube called the reciprocator
>>>> shaft.
>>>> Within the reciprocator assembly is a set of felt oil retaining
>>>> pads and a
>>>> small rubber boot that acts kind like an oil sump. It is critical to
>>>> maintain proper lubrication of this system.
>>>>
>>>> Think about this. The needle case moves and in the process selects a
>>>> different needle bar/needle for each color change, but each needle
>>>> bar
>>>> aligns up with the same and only one reciprocator jaws and shaft.
>>>> This of
>>>> course means that the reciprocator assembly wears 100% of the time
>>>> the
>>>> machine is running. Failure to maintain proper lubrication in this
>>>> area
>>>> leads to all sorts of problems, especially in the Z axis area with
>>>> errors
>>>> and timeouts, thread breaks, etc.
>>>>
>>>> To get a good look at the reciprocator assembly, color change to
>>>> needle 16
>>>> and remove the left front black plastic cover. DO NOT ALLOW THE
>>>> NEEDLE
>>>> CASE
>>>> TO MOVE or COLOR CHANGE WHILE THE FRONT COVER IS OFF. The needle
>>>> bars will
>>>> drop out of the groove in the right cover and this is a very bad
>>>> thing.
>>>> Removing the front covers one at a time is a normal part of the
>>>> internal
>>>> lubrication and inspection process. Just be careful to not do
>>>> anything
>>>> that
>>>> would start the needle case to move before the front cover is
>>>> replaced.
>>>>
>>>> Rod Springer
>>>>
>>>> Embroidery Cottage
>>>> Rod & Sharon Springer
>>>> Melco Amaya Tech & Trainer
>>>> Design Shop Pro+ Digitizing
>>>>
>>>> Boise, ID  83713
>>>> 208-938-3038
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Shuffletown Embroidery" <shuffemb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:45 PM
>>>> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> OK, What's a reciprocator? I've never seen a reference to it. Is
>>>>> that on
>>>>> an
>>>>> Amaya?
>>>>> Mary
>>>>>
>>>>> Mary Buckle
>>>>> Shuffletown Embroidery
>>>>> Charlotte, NC
>>>>> 704-398-1273
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Douglas Parker
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:19 PM
>>>>> To: amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jeff,
>>>>>
>>>>> Tnx for the reply. I too watch maintenance and use the timers as
>>>>> a basic
>>>>> guide. Daily and sometimes multiple times a day when running
>>>>> hard, I do
>>>>> the
>>>>> hook lubrication. Several times a week, even before the timer comes
>>>>> around
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> cycle to needle 16 and do the reciprocator  lubrication, and at
>>>>> least 1
>>>>> time
>>>>> every two weeks I pull the needle case cover and lube the needle
>>>>> bars
>>>>> upper
>>>>> and lower pads. If the machine has sat idle for several days
>>>>> ( and in
>>>>> slow
>>>>> times, this can be up to a couple of weeks or even a month), I
>>>>> run the
>>>>> entire machine lubrication. This takes a couple of hours but I
>>>>> find it is
>>>>> worth it. Oil and grease are cheap as are needles. Replacing
>>>>> major parts
>>>>> are
>>>>> expensive even with the maintenance agreements.
>>>>> My machine is an older one (SN: 320821) and has all its original
>>>>> parts
>>>>> except for the rotary hook. It still stitches fine and runs at
>>>>> 1200 spm
>>>>> default speed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Doug Parker
>>>>> JTB Embroidery Services, Inc.
>>>>> Denver, CO
>>>>> jtbembsvcinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/23/06 14:06, "Jeff Banks" <banksje@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> HI Douglas,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I think you will find it is now 4,000,000 stitches. But, I have
>>>>>> to go
>>>>>>
>>>>> back
>>>>>
>>>>>> to my last post. If 3,900,000 of those stitches were all on one
>>>>>> or two
>>>>>> needles, I am gong to look long and hard at those rollers and
>>>>>> associated
>>>>>> mechanics. It also does not state to replace them unless
>>>>>> needed.  It is
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> lubrication and cleaning, and replace if needed maintenance.
>>>>>> Again, what
>>>>>>
>>>>> if
>>>>>
>>>>>> the 4,000,000 stitches were done with metallic thread? This is
>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>
>>>>> show
>>>>>
>>>>>> more wear and tear on the parts. What if the 4,000,000 stitches
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> done
>>>>>>
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>> a 100 degree heat, in a warehouse with construction next door
>>>>>> going on?
>>>>>>
>>>>> All
>>>>>
>>>>>> the rollers may be dirty, not just the ones used for those 4
>>>>>> million
>>>>>> stitches.  If a particular thread feed mechanics and rollers
>>>>>> seem to be
>>>>>> giving a problem, (thread popping out along one side for
>>>>>> instance), then
>>>>>> doing the maintenance and insuring it is clean and properly
>>>>>> lubricated
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> the first thing to look at, even if you just did it. The point
>>>>>> is, more
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> less maintenance may need to be done depending on use and
>>>>>> environment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Jeff Banks
>>>>>>  Melco Embroidery Systems
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Douglas Parker" <jtbembsvcinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:44 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rod & All,
>>>>>>> Have been following this thread on thread tracking and new roller
>>>>>>> lubrication. I recently (December 2005) replaced my black
>>>>>>> rollers with
>>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>> new yellow rollers and the knurled pinch rollers. As you
>>>>>>> pointed out,
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> difficult, following the Melco approved lubrication procedures,
>>>>>>> to get
>>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>> roller down in the seat without contaminating the surface with
>>>>>>> grease.
>>>>>>> At the same time I replaced the rollers I upgraded my software
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> 4.02.022
>>>>>>> to 6.08.522. There is in the 6.08.522 a lubrication procedure ( I
>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> 2 million stitches) that requires the removal, cleaning,
>>>>>>> lubrication
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> replacement of the feed rollers and pinch rollers. I have had
>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> least one time since the initial installation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe Jeff Banks can verify this as he is a MELCO guru.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Doug Parker
>>>>>>> JTB Embroidery Services, Inc.
>>>>>>> Denver, Colorado
>>>>>>> jtbembsvcinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/23/06 08:35, "Rod or Sharon" <springer37@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Beverly,
>>>>>>>> The new style yellow rollers are a definite improvement over
>>>>>>>> the black
>>>>>>>> ones
>>>>>>>> but they are critical to a couple of important items. The
>>>>>>>> first is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> proper
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> lubrication, especially the little red pinch rollers. Both the
>>>>>>>> red
>>>>>>>> pinch
>>>>>>>> rollers and the yellow thread feed rollers need to be removed
>>>>>>>> periodically
>>>>>>>> and cleaned . It is difficult to say just how long between
>>>>>>>> cleanings
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> should wait. This would depend on how much one needle is used
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>> and the wear each individual roller system would receive. Pop
>>>>>>>> off a
>>>>>>>> couple
>>>>>>>> of the more used red pinch rollers, black or white thread for
>>>>>>>> example
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> ones that seem to be giving you the most trouble, and look
>>>>>>>> carefully
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> axle hub that it rotates on. If  they appear dry  and/or you
>>>>>>>> can see a
>>>>>>>> red
>>>>>>>> powder looking residue on the axle hub the red pinch roller
>>>>>>>> rotates
>>>>>>>> on,
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> is imperative that they be cleaned and lubricated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A good pre-sign that lubrication may be the culprit, is the
>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>> tracking
>>>>>>>> to the left side of the roller as you indicated in your post.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The second thing that is critical with the new rollers is that
>>>>>>>> if any
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> oil
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> grease gets on the surface of them, the tread will track clear
>>>>>>>> off of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> left side of the rollers and cause a bird-nest. They must be kept
>>>>>>>> clean.
>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>> clean them, take them out----both the red pinch rollers and
>>>>>>>> yellow
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> thread
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> feed rollers........, and wash them with warm soapy water,
>>>>>>>> re-lubricate
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> replace them being very careful not to get any lubricating
>>>>>>>> grease back
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the surface of the rollers. I always wash my hands after
>>>>>>>> applying the
>>>>>>>> lubricating greas e with a cotton q-tip before re-attaching
>>>>>>>> the red
>>>>>>>> rollers
>>>>>>>> and inserting the yellow rollers. I apply the grease to the
>>>>>>>> axle hub
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> red
>>>>>>>> roller rotates on and the hub area in the machine that the yellow
>>>>>>>> roller
>>>>>>>> rotates in, I do not apply any grease direcly to the rollers
>>>>>>>> themselves
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> it is very difficult not to transfer grease all over the place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another item worthy of mention, along this same line, is how
>>>>>>>> long has
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> been since the needle bar shafts were last oiled? This too can
>>>>>>>> create
>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>> break problems for the same reason as above. Some needles get
>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> often than others and therefore should receive more attention
>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>> lubrication field. How fast are you running your designs?
>>>>>>>> Remember
>>>>>>>> additional speed equals more friction which generates heat
>>>>>>>> which means
>>>>>>>> lubrication is and will be a very critical element in being
>>>>>>>> successful
>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>> using the Amaya..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hope this helps
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rod Springer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Embroidery Cottage
>>>>>>>> Rod & Sharon Springer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Melco Amaya Tech & Trainer
>>>>>>>> Design Shop Pro+ Digitizing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Boise, ID  83713
>>>>>>>> 208-938-3038
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Beverly Thompson" <beverlyt@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 7:32 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks for the advice.  I am running anvil rib tees,  using 2
>>>>>>>>> cutaway,
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> mt of 4.  It seems that alot of times when it breaks there's
>>>>>>>>> a little
>>>>>>>>> loop
>>>>>>>>> of thread behind the roller wheel.  also on some of the
>>>>>>>>> rollers it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> looks
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> like the yellow roller is far to the right and the thread
>>>>>>>>> barely on
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>> Could that be a problem?
>>>>>>>>> As far as the needles,  I always check to see if the eye is
>>>>>>>>> straight,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> if
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> i make an adjustment there.  thanks for the magnifer tip,  i
>>>>>>>>> find i
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> have
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> trouble seeing even with my glasses.  So your saying go up to
>>>>>>>>> 6 mt
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> try
>>>>>>>>> that?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Beverly Thompson
>>>>>>>>> Perdido Beach Embroidery
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "HK Acree" <hkacree@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 12:16 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bev,
>>>>>>>>>> After the change in rollers the material thickness you were
>>>>>>>>>> used to
>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>> changes. Bump it up by 2 to begin with then check your work and
>>>>>>>>>> adjust
>>>>>>>>>> accordingly. You should see  far less thread breaks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As for your needles. Rod Springer really helped  me on this
>>>>>>>>>> one. Get
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> magnifier with the light in it. Cheap at Home Depot, $2.50.
>>>>>>>>>> Look at the groove in the needle. This represents the eye.
>>>>>>>>>> Tweak it
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> hair
>>>>>>>>>> and the needles are set.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Would appreciate some feedback on this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Herb
>>>>>>>>>> Royal Embroidery
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beverly Thompson" <beverlyt@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:51 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [amayausers] Thread Breaks
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Everybody,
>>>>>>>>>>> did the roller upgrade on my machines, not the software.  i am
>>>>>>>>>>> starting
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> get thread breaks again.  some needles run good others not.  I
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>> it was how they were put in or anything because a tech did it.
>>>>>>>>>>> Can someone tell me again how to clean the rollers in case its
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> grease.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Beverly Thompson
>>>>>>>>>>> Perdido Beach Embroidery
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

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