[accessibleimage] Re: Tactile-Audio Viewers

Kaye,

Sorry to change the title fro audio-tactile to tactile audio but inthe
sensory process the touch comes before the sound because the touch can and
should come without the sound sometimes!

I'll try and respond, Kaye has asked some very important questions - I can
only answer from my experience over the past 17 years - tactile audio is now
gaining some air-space! Such a pity that reason is so very serious.
However - if general readers of accessible image cannot face all that
follows, at least tab down until you reach ##### - I am making a seriously
important statement - for reasonable people to consider.

Kaye asked:
How many audio-tactile viewers, be they TGD or TTT....?
Don replies:
ONLY Nomad and TGD AudioPIX, AudioCAD, AudioTRIP in various combinations at
one time and since announcement at CSUN this year (NFB can confirm this)
there is TGD Workshop which includes our TGD QikTac, TGD Pro, TGD AudioPIX
and TGD AudioBraille (Braille self teaching first introduced in Nomad in
1990). It is not usual to provide commercial information of this sort - but
there are some out there apart from yours at Universities, Colleges and
Schools - world wide. As I have said Nomad is still out there after many
many years as Nomad Mentor. I have no rights to know how many are used or
sold. The problem with any original idea is that 10 years is a short time to
adoption unless you are Microsoft or Ford. These systems - that I designed
for HOME use more than anything else, are for fun, sharing, and learning at
home, and to be optimized do require the same sort of response that Caxton
needed when he invented printing press - AUTHORS! You have a dear old
Nomad - me too but its stopped barking! must feed it up again if I can find
a DOS pet store! We are tool makers Kaye, not picture makers - the cameras
rather than the filmmaker - get me a Goldwyn!

Kaye asks:
How feasible is it to design and produce the overlays in one location and
then send them to another location where the audio tags are attached by a
classroom teacher?
Don replies:
EASY. TGD has always provided the initial drawing tools, QikTac and TraceMe,
combined in TGD Pro, even the capability to turn a photograph into an
embossed or raised line image. TGD Workshop, our latest attempt at an
affordable combo, TGD Workshop. We also have always provided a FREELY
utility called hardcopy that lets you emboss or PRINT ANY TGD QikTac (SIG
file)or TGD TraceMe (BMP/JPG) file whether you have a TGD program or not -
however - to put on the audio elements - I don't like 'tags' the sound is
integral - onto the graphic - we call them TAGraphics (Tactile Audio
Graphics) you do need TGD Workshop (in the old days TGD Pro S with
AudioPIX). Once you've got the image, tactile or not, you simply 'push' the
information into the points or spaces where the designer wants them to go -
keyboard input or just talk them in - NOO YOK! Coney Island, oh boy!
ANYTHING, into ANYTHING and even moving 3D models - cars at an
intersection - NOT a PROBLEM - But although we developed Qiktac (embosser
and PRINT output - very easy as Lisa has confirmed) you can use any good
glue and spaghetti and string and Corel (if you bank balance and brain cells
are in good order), Paintbrush - anything to make the graphics, Thermoform,
Flexi-paper - any thing BUT make them TALK and SING and GROWL - this is NOT
anti-Braille - it encourages READING - because it delivers a high level of
'understanding' of the tactile information: "Oh, its the cat's whiskers!"

Kaye asks:
Is this something that a teacher or her para educator
can very easily learn to do?  This is a critical question!

Don replies:
Well, we had a seven year old child do a complete graphic in sound, keyboard
and normal speech in. It is not difficult to type a word and then touch it
into the appropriate place or speak it in, - exactly the same procedure as
putting the text on to ANY image for sighted use - it doesn't just appear!
Also, ANY text file, TXT as made in Notebook or Word can be pushed into ANY
space on the picture. A whole book if you like and changes made AT ANY
TIME - suddenly the USSR is called XXXX - you can change it in less than 30
seconds and keep the same tactile surface information. Back to TXT, just
scan the text or type it, save as TXT, put it into the 'accessible image' by
touching the point or points where you want it to go, on a line, in a
rectangle, in an irregular shape, just type "F" - not hard its next to
D,C,V,G,T,R on the keyboard - in English!. You can edit any single dot on
your 'accessible image' it is called a "Tagraphic" (Tactile audio graphic)
in TGD. Any point and we 'allow' 9600 can have three entire books put under
it. Touch New York, or Noo Yok ( we can manipulate text input to any
dialect) and level 1 information, straight from your geography book (with
permission or acknowledgement) can be hiding under - instead of New York you
could have had Frank Singing "New York, new York!" - great stimulus - and
the response - I bet'cha - a smile and a lasting memory of where it is -
underneath can be the boring stuff, population, ethnic mix, restaurants and
so forth - I guess it takes about 1 hour to learn how to put information
in - if you are slow.

Kaye says:
"'led by the hand through learning new technology" -

Don replies:
This is NOT new technology - it has been around since 1988 - and Karen
Luxton Gourgey saw it and heard it then!

Kaye says:
"If teachers don't have ....strong ..support ... "
Well yes, I understand that. Of course it is important, just as I need a
secretary! but to be fair, some effort has to be named at the other end of
the supply chain. I really believe that the place for TGD tactileaudio
Workshop is in the home - perhaps BEFORE school. It is fun, it passes time
in the family TOGETHER - and parents and siblings will spend half an hour
learning or reading the manual - . If the system (just the TagPad our name
for the Tactile Audio Graphics Pad) can be taken home, or taken to school
(US LETTER size and one small controller - one USB connection, no power) the
software is just there and TGD has ALWAYS given away TWO licenses for every
CD - HOME and AWAY.

Kaye says:
I see an audio-tactile viewing device as an important tool for blind
students within the
classroom ... often on the fly.  For example, a teacher might need a tactile
map of the state
of Nebraska where she needs to place only a few pieces of information for
the day's lesson.  Multiple tactile maps of the state could be produced,
via computer graphics, for the teacher who places pertinent audio tags on
each map as the day's assignment dictates.

Don replies:
Exactly and that is precisely what TGD Workshop let's you do - PRECISELY.
You can make the graphic on any medium - I like flexi-paper - as I said, it
scrunches up into school boy pockets - However, in TGD Workshop there is a
self testing system, logged results, time in use - "Mathew, go do your
homework on the maps of the USA"  - but for your God's sake - ENJOY it! We
did a cartoon once for Nomad.  Description of picture - " Little boy and
little girl in bathtub, age around 4." Speech when little boy's mouth is
touched - "No you can't, you already broke yours off" - It was perhaps the
first tactile audio cartoon but the point is, its fun. When the teacher
makes a tactile audio image, in a hurry, in school, she just has to TALK in
the information - her very own voice will say, "New York", or in a text
window "Now Mathew, I want you to look hard at the southern states, where is
Texas, how big is it? TGD can find it for you and measure it. How far from
New York to Baltimore on Highway XX?" TGD Workshop, like ALL our programs
since 1988 will measure the road , bends and all!"

When Dr. Eddins (female) was at APH and Nomad was there, we had serious
discussions about the efficacy of tactile audio graphics for education and
decent sexuality related graphics - the need and the rights are still there.

Back to Kaye

Kaye asks:
Or ... could the tactile graphic be designed and the audio tags attached
by the transcriber or tactile artist, per teacher prescription, in one
location and then ....... but I'm not clear on this"

Don replies:
ABSOLUTELY, as covered above somewhere - try it out Kaye - send me drawing
by email attachment - named items will be 'spoken' obviously.
I can make a tactile version - let's say flexi-paper - possibly directly by
importing to TGD TraceMe (included in Workshop) Print it out. Put it on TGD
TagPad and run TGD AudioPIX. Type or speak the 'labels' and lower level txt
messages (sent as TXT files). Put them into the picture. Automatically saved
as a TGD PIX file. Send back the original as jpg file ready for you to
print, send back accompanying PIX file. You print out (or open envelope with
hard copy!) onto flexi paper, start TGD Workshop AudioPIX, shove in the PIX
file into the Windows folder and bingo - tactile audio DONE. You can then
change whatever you like!.

##### Kaye asks:
A tactile-audio viewer would go far in validating the acceptance of TGD,
Tiger, and "toaster" graphics, which up to now have not been well-accepted
by many Braille reading students.  Highly textured and dimensional
graphics with Braille labels are a wonderful tool for Braille readers and
by no means should they be displaced, but in the present real world where
tactile graphics are expected to be produced in record numbers, it would
seem that the audio feature would successfully compensate for the lack of
high dimension and varied textures, although these would still exist to a
lesser degree.

##### Don replies:
ABSOLUTELY - I wish I could give it away, indeed I am now giving some
thought to the possibility of releasing ALL my software AS SHAREWARE with
FREE updates but in order for distributors to be interested they have to buy
their Kelloggs and want to spend money and time in the all important
marketing. Therefore I am considering the following scenario - ONLY the
TagPad, barcode reader and USB microphone that is included in the Workshop
kit would be charged - anyone could afford the software - and even libraries
could afford to own a Tagpad, each school district could have one or two -
and lend them out. Parents could afford to buy them.

Kaye says:
And what about our schools' low vision students and identified
non-readers?  Surely, they could greatly benefit from a--shall we now call
it a "visual/tactile-audio device"?  Oh--the possibilities!!!

Don replies:
ABSOLUTELY and if you check almost all Nomad and TGD chatter and the many
articles listed in www.tactileaudio.com/publications.htm you will see that
this is and always has been our position. I have tried very hard to get the
actual touch screen makers, Keytec (we do NOT use any of their software just
the toughened glass screen and controller match box) who have close links
with Special Education to give TGD Workshop a boost here - I think they
will.

Kaye says:
I sincerely hope that the patent issues regarding the TTT vs TGD are
resolved soon.  On the surface it appears to be primarily a matter of
semantics.  The focus needs to be on getting these devices marketed so
that targeted populations have access to this revolutionary (not
really--the NOMAD has been around for ages--I have one!) educational tool.

Don replies:
I hope so too -VERY EASILY done - withdraw the application because the
Patent will never stand up in any court. As you, among many many others all
over the world, and Karen Gourgey knows, Nomad has been around for ages. But
it is NOT semantics Kaye - TTT uses our functionality, "UP, Down, Left
right - in guiding users, measurements of distance, the very idea of touch
screen synchronization to touch for tactile images is THE invention - anyone
who wants a copy of the submission I am making directly to the US PO can
just ask for it. It is a DOC file - I cannot supply copies of the videos but
a US NTSC video made in 1988 of pre and post Nomad functioning on a "high
resolution' touch screen, in fact the well known Edmark - is included in
submissions as is a Japanese News NHK item 1992, Kobe! No Kaye, the Patent
issue will not go away and is not semantics - it is abuse for profit and I
do not like that.

Don concludes:
If TTT had contacted me as View Plus had the courtesy to do, tell me what
they NEEDED to use my prior art functionality that they 'admire so much' - I
would have been over the moon and at 67 I'll tell you something else - I
would have eagerly sought their interest to take over my prior art - if
certain conditions relating to my expert and associated distributor
Repro-Tronics and dear old "Bumpy" Skrivanek  were considered. IT IS NOT TOO
LATE - I do care ONLY about the blind kids - but in poor places too - if
TTT want to eat humble pie, I WILL NOT give any further attention to the
fight - but NO PATENT - and a system which will have Kaye's portability -
because it will be THE  system, will emerge from the ashes of TTT.  The
TIGER is also very important - it uses a very different platform -

You see Lisa - your accessible image - - has been the medium towards an
improved future for all blind and other special needs groups - TTT has the
ball in its court - it is in some trouble obviously - I will NOT withdraw my
petition - if the gloves have to stay off I may have to be more aggressive
on use of my prior art - Patents are not the only basis for market control -
ask Apple and Xerox, Colgate and Palmolive,  Mickey Mouse and?

Don




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kaye Travnicek" <ktravnicek@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <accessibleimage@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 2:11 AM
Subject: [accessibleimage] Audio-Tactile Viewers


> Good morning, Don, Karen, Lisa, and all!  I have spent a day or two in my
> personal "think tank" after work, spent partially in walking a quarter
> mile track outside the building where I am housed.  I have logged some
> miles while mulling over the matter of audio-tactile viewing devices.  I
> wish I could say that the audio-tactile gods spoke to me while I was
> jogging around the track, but unfortunately many questions kept surfacing
> to which I seek answers.  I have also spent time gleaning information from
> the TGD, Tactile Graphics, and SAL websites in an effort to understand and
> compare their similarities and differences.  I eliminated SAL from my list
> due to its cost and its focus on teaching braille to the very young
> student.  Plus, I couldn't find where it offered dual purpose as an
> effective audio-tactile viewer.
>
> How many audio-tactile viewers, be they TGD or TTT, or something similar
> (how many versions of an audio viewing device exist?--I couldn't locate
> others) are currently placed in facilities/institutions and being used on
> a daily basis by teachers of the blind and/or classroom teachers?  Are
> there any stats on this?
>
> How feasible is it to design and produce the overlays in one location and
> then send them to another location where the audio tags are attached by a
> classroom teacher?  Is this something that a teacher or her paraeducator
> can very easily learn to do?  This is a critical question!  I know from
> years of personal experience that the majority of classroom teachers need
> to be led by the hand through learning to use new technology (hardware and
> software).  If teachers don't have a strong technology support system,
> they tend to reject new technology, e.g., mention the word "Intelli-Tools"
> to many teachers and they "run for the hills"!  I see an audio-tactile
> viewing device as an important tool for blind students within the
> classroom where the content is generated by the teacher on site--and often
> on the fly.  For example, a teacher might need a tactile map of the state
> of Nebraska where she needs to place only a few pieces of information for
> the day's lesson.  Multiple tactile maps of the state could be produced,
> via computer graphics, for the teacher who places pertinent audio tags on
> each map as the day's assignment dictates.
>
> Or ... could the tactile graphic be designed and the audio tags attached
> by the transcriber or tactile artist, per teacher prescription, in one
> location and then, when the tactile graphic arrived at the student's
> school, would the audio tags assigned in the production location work with
> another pad or tablet in the student's classroom?  I assume this is
> possible, but I'm not clear on this.
>
> A tactile-audio viewer would go far in validating the acceptance of TGD,
> Tiger, and "toaster" graphics, which up to now have not been well-accepted
> by many braille reading students.  Highly textured and dimensional
> graphics with braille labels are a wonderful tool for braille readers and
> by no means should they be displaced, but in the present real world where
> tactile graphics are expected to be produced in record numbers, it would
> seem that the audio feature would successfully compensate for the lack of
> high dimension and varied textures, although these would still exist to a
> lesser degree.  In fact, it seems that it would more than compensate, as
> the elimination of labels would allow for more detail in the drawing and
> the audio description could be as comprehensive as one chooses to make it.
>  And what about our schools' low vision students and identified
> non-readers?  Surely, they could greatly benefit from a--shall we now call
> it a "visual/tactile-audio device"?  Oh--the possibilities!!!
>
> I sincerely hope that the patent issues regarding the TTT vs TGD are
> resolved soon.  On the surface it appears to be primarily a matter of
> semantics.  The focus needs to be on getting these devices marketed so
> that targeted populations have access to this revolutionary (not
> really--the NOMAD has been around for ages--I have one!) educational tool.
>  -- kt
>
> P.S.  I loved your stories, Don!   And ... Karen, I agree with you
> completely.  There certainly is a place for high-resolution masters for
> essential core graphics.  Bottom line--it's time to combine and coordinate
> ALL our efforts for the greater good!
>
>
>
>

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