[accessibleimage] Re: Blind children drawing people

LOL Miss O, they won't throw us Flatlanders in jail for discussing the third 
dimension, will they?

Amanda
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Susan Osterhaus 
  To: accessibleimage@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 11:24 AM
  Subject: [accessibleimage] Re: Blind children drawing people


  Ann,

   

  I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this discussion, and I’m one of those sighted people 
who have trouble interpreting a two-dimensional drawing of a three-dimensional 
object. I have a friend who is totally blind from birth, and she is much better 
at this than I am. Her husband, who is blind, is more like me. They have two 
sighted children and one has her abilities and the other does not. I’ve 
consoled myself in the fact that I’ve learned to compensate and live with my 
“disability” by lots of practice and working with blind students who have 
helped me “see” 3-D. As a math teacher, Geometry was never my best subject 
area, yet everyone who has observed me teaching it exclaims how well I teach 
it. I probably have more geometry math toys than anything else in fact. I guess 
that I have been teaching myself right along with my students – hopefully one 
step ahead of them some of the time. 

   

  Charles said: “Many blind children (and also adults) cannot conceive drawing 
a three-dimensional object in a two-dimensional medium.  Whether it is a 
neurological, a developmental or conceptual block, this is so for many.  
Three-dimensional visualizing, and more critically here the sense of sight 
being able to “see” in three dimensions must be learned within a narrow windows 
at an early time in the child’s life.  Else it doesn’t seem to take.” I have 
really wanted for someone to do research in this exact area to help explain the 
phenomenon. 

   

  Ann, Amanda and I (and others on this list) are in Austin, TX, so please let 
us know the next time you are nearby, and we can get together and play with 
your “stuff.” We can also talk more about Flatland!! Try to avoid our very hot 
summers, and you should enjoy your stay. Whenever it’s really cold in Denver, 
just head our way! 

   

  Best wishes,

  Susan

   

   

  From: accessibleimage-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:accessibleimage-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
ann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 10:10 AM
  To: accessibleimage@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [accessibleimage] Re: Blind children drawing people

   

  Well I will keep that in mind and contact you if I am going to be near by. I 
think there is a good chance that could happen sometime. Ann

   

  Ann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Keep In Touch!
  www.SensationalBooks.com
  P.O. Box 261085
  Lakewood, CO 80226
  (303) 238-4760

    -------- Original Message --------
    Subject: [accessibleimage] Re: Blind children drawing people
    From: "cpond" <cpond@xxxxxxxxx>
    Date: Wed, February 01, 2012 8:51 am
    To: <accessibleimage@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

    I’m afraid we’re separated by something less-than concept, but harder to 
bridge in a logistical way.  I’m in Ottawa Ontario, Canada.

     

    Charles

     

     

     

     

    From: ann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

    Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 10:25 AM

    To: accessibleimage@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

    Subject: [accessibleimage] Re: Blind children drawing people

     

    Amanda and Charles, I was first inspired to teach by Dr. John Kennedy's 
work, Drawing and the Blind in particular. I have developed the classes but I 
have not put them to paper. Maybe you could contact me directly and tell me 
where you are located. I travel a lot and maybe you do too. (I am in the Denver 
area) I would be more than happy to get together with one or both of you and 
try some of this stuff out. Game? Ann

     

    Ann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Keep In Touch!
    www.SensationalBooks.com
    P.O. Box 261085
    Lakewood, CO 80226
    (303) 238-4760

      -------- Original Message --------
      Subject: [accessibleimage] Re: Blind children drawing people
      From: "Amanda Lacy" <lacy925@xxxxxxxxx>
      Date: Mon, January 30, 2012 8:16 pm
      To: <accessibleimage@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

       

      Charles,

       

      <smile> In Flatland, the 2D beings read 1D books.

       

      The very first time I encountered a drawing of a 3D shape came in the 6th 
grade in the form of a simple math question: What shape is this? Below those 
words was a tactile circle with a curved line through it. Of course, I answered 
"circle." Although the teacher said I was wrong she gave me credit anyway since 
she was at a loss to prove her claim that this was somehow a sphere that did 
not roll off the page.

         

        Ann, do you have online lessons for blind students who struggle with 
these concepts? Throughout my life I have had many of the exact same unanswered 
questions that Charles has articulated so well here.

         

        Amanda

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: cpond 

        To: accessibleimage@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

        Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 8:55 PM

        Subject: [accessibleimage] Re: Blind children drawing people

         

        Hi Ann.  There is much in what you write, and much one could say to 
reply.  If you would draw a hand as you describe, which is a fairly flat 
object. then how would one draw a fist, which is definitely three dimensional?  
The three-dimensional shape must be captured, and yet the object drawn must be 
identifiable as a fist and not a hand, or as a hand reconfigured into a fist?  
Actually, a hand is a three-dimentional albeit flat object.  The fingers are 
round and elongated; the nails are curved; the palm is thicker than the rest of 
the hand.

         

        How would you draw a record as compared to a cookie?

         

        I wonder if the tactile representation of visual tricks would work 
tactually on a blind person, like parallax for example.  I think not.

         

        In school we always dealt with realtime three-D models of objects, or 
even well-done thermoform representations of three-dimensional objects.

         

        Ha.  As for the funnies, well, maybe I’ll write a one-dimensional book 
about them one day.

         

        The tactile picture of an elongated cylinder in no way conjures up in 
my mind the actual image of a cylinder.  It cannot come up off of the page. 
<quizzzical look here>

         

        To some blind adults, tactile graphics, perfectly clear to a sighted 
person, feel like a jumple of lines and curves with absolutely no meaning.  I 
suppose that subjectively I’m somewhere in between, except that I know the 
symbols for electrical schematics and such.  The are purely symbolic and not 
pictorial.

         

        Charles

         

         

         

         

        From: ann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

        Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:45 PM

        To: accessibleimage@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

        Subject: [accessibleimage] Re: Blind children drawing people

         

        I love this conversation.

         

        I have not experienced the limitation of a one shot window of 
comprehension that Charles has seen. I teach art at the Colorado Center for the 
Blind (students 18+ years old) for the last 12 years and over the years we have 
come up with some really accessible ways to explore (hands on) picture plane 
concepts like: over lap and outline, foreground, middle and background, 
horizon, convergence and diminution of size and the like. It really seems that 
most of the time I am giving words to concepts that have been living right 
below the surface of consciousness anyway, it is not really that big a leap. 
One of the first lessons we start with is recognizing, sorting and naming basic 
shapes. Then when you move onto a concept like point of view or point of 
perception and trying to draw a 3D object, we can deconstruct the object into 
basic forms and start there. For example - my hand face on is a big rectangle 
with five skinny rectangles arranged around it. That is basic then I can 
refine.  I find that technique works equally well for sighted people who have 
no idea how to convert a 3D object into a 2D picture either. 

            I have modified a perspective machine that is ripped from the brain 
of Albrecht Durer. With that student are able to tactually create their own 
pictures using all the standard picture conventions with their own 
imaginations. Very fun and students have made some wonderful art work that they 
can self critique towards improving their skills.

         

        Ann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Keep In Touch!
        www.SensationalBooks.com
        P.O. Box 261085
        Lakewood, CO 80226
        (303) 238-4760

          -------- Original Message --------
          Subject:  e] Re: Blind children drawing people
          From: "cpond" <cpond@xxxxxxxxx>
          Date: Sun, January 29, 2012 8:14 pm
          To: <accessibleimage@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

          Many blind children (and also adults) cannot conceive drawing a 
three-dimensional object in a two-dimensional medium.  Whether it is a 
neurological, a developmental or comceptual block, this is so for many.  
Three-dimensional visualizing, and more critically here the sense of sight 
being able to “see” in three dimensions must be learned within a narrow windows 
at an early time in the child’s life.  Else it doesn’t seem to take.

           

          Charles

          From: bmarek 

          Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 2:28 PM

          To: accessibleimage@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

          Subject: [accessibleimage] Re: Blind children drawing people

           

          It's probably silly to post a question and then to try and answer it 
but I, too, find the question intriguing. I work mainly with school-age 
children, where I am confronted with somewhat different challenges, like the 
request I had from a 10-year old who said: I can understand drawings of people 
standing but not when they are doing something. To help him and other children 
solve this "problem", I developed a resource which I call "Fleximan" but it 
only helps children understand what people look like when they sit, bend down, 
jump, do push-ups or somersaults, kick or throw a ball etc. but does not 
provide an answer to the question about how very young blind children draw 
people.  My feeling is that "tadpoles" may not be an obligatory stage in blind 
children's drawings. Drawing on plastic is much harder than drawing on paper so 
probably blind children do not start drawing as early as sighted kids, and, 
drawing a circle is not easy when you can't see so sth like a rectangle is more 
likely as the main part of a person's body. But I may be wrong

          Boguslaw 'Bob' Marek

           

          W dniu 29.01.2012 20:16, bmarek napisał(a):

            Below I am copying a message from another list - a question from a 
friend in Australia.

            Boguslaw 'Bob' Marek:

            Hi,
            For a new project I am very interested to find out if you know of 
research or resources giving an insight in the drawing development of young 
blind children and if, like their sighted peers, they go through a period in 
which they draw so-called "tadpole drawings", basically a circle as the head 
and body in one, and then sticks as arms and legs?
            kind regards,
            Phia

            Sonokids Australia
            www.sonokids.org

             





             

           

           


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