[accessibleimage] Re: Accessible visual aesthetics

Hi Chris,

Ok, perhaps I stretched a point a bit.  The important bit was context, if
one knows 
the context then it must help the experience. I imagine there is a dancers
language that
also exists, so that for one that knows the lingo, a couple of words would
be enough
but for those that don't know dance, would require a longer explaination. 
Sort of like
art styles etc. Saying retro or modern, rustic to a designer and they will
understand pretty
much, but to another it's just gobolly gook.
Ok, so sports aren't seen now as a symbolic action (though you might get
som disagreement about
this and the origins of some sports), there are some areas where art or
symbolic information comes in.
What about opponents trying to psych each other out? Mohammed Ali and
"moving like a butterfly stinging
like a bee" , ice skating, and don't people use words that are usually
connected with aesthetics when 
talking about sports, like "that pass was a thing of beauty"? And then
there is dance where there is little "art", 
where the performer is just following the steps? 
Well if you don't call this rambling, I don't know what is.
Best,
Lisa


accessibleimage@xxxxxxxxxxxxx skriver:
>Lisa,
>
>I think the difference between football, hockey, baseball etc. is that the
>movements of the athletes are not representative of anything other than
>trying to score points or keep their opponents from doing the same.  The
>description of these actions, therefore, tell the whole story.  When
>Johnny
>Most yelled, "Bird stole the ball!  Bird stole the ball!"  A listener
>didn't
>try to imagine a dancer becoming a flower.
>
>In dance, if you describe the movements, "the prima ballerina's arm slowly
>moves upward as smoothly as one can imagine, her hand opening upward
>toward
>the ceiling..." I get a visual of such a movement but, without the context
>of everything else going on in a wordless environment I think I would get
>lost.
>
>Back to Johnny Most calling the Celtics basketball game.  When Larry Bird
>stole the ball, I knew that Bird reached in, grabbed the basketball from
>the
>opposing player and, with a few more words from old Johnny, knew that he
>passed it off to DJ who, in turn sank a shot winning the game for the home
>town team.  So, in sports, a listener knows the context and the motion is
>not representative of anything other than trying to meet the objectives of
>the game.
>
>A sad note:  I heard that Brigitte Neilson died earlier this week.  Her
>recordings will be her lasting legacy and I doubt I will ever hear anyone
>sing Wagner's female characters more beautifully.  I've been celebrating
>her
>life by listening to those recordings plus a few bootlegs I have from the
>Texaco.  Maybe, in her honor, I will shatter a wine glass too...
>
>Enjoy,
>cdh
>
>  
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: accessibleimage-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:accessibleimage-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lisa Yayla
>Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:43 AM
>To: accessibleimage@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [accessibleimage] Re: Accessible visual aesthetics
>
>Hi,
>
>The idea of mapping out what is going on stage was not to be done with the
>idea of aesthetics, but for information.
>The idea is to be involved, know what is going on. Whether this leads to
>an aesthetic appreciation for ballet would
>I think be difficult to say. It might.  I would guess, learning about
>something from one angle can lead to
>other types of understanding and appreciation of the same subject in other
>ways. We all don't have to go the same
>way or route.  The map is not a replacement for visual aesthetics, but it
>is information on what is going on.
>
>From what I understand there are a lot of blind persons that like to
>listen to football on the radio or attend matches. 
>I would dare to suppose that this is close to an aesthetic appreciation,
>enjoyment of the game.  What is it they enjoy?
>Isn't football sort of similar to ballet in its movement and drama? Can
>one enjoy things on different levels, different aspects? 
>
>If a football fan got a tactile or printed diagram of a play (or what ever
>they are called), I would guess he/she would get
>enjoyment out of it, and exactly what that enjoyment was based on could, I
>would,  be different from person to person. And
>how they learned to appreciate football would I guess too would be pretty
>individual.
>
>Best,
>Lisa
> 
>Personally it's a mystery how anyone can get enjoyment out of football
>(sorry not a fan). 
>
>
>
>accessibleimage@xxxxxxxxxxxxx skriver:
>>Hi Chris et al.
>>
>>Reply inline...
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Chris Hofstader" <chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>< address information snipped>
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>> I struggle with dance without being able to see.
>>
>>I think dance typifies the fundamental problem with access to art
>>compared 
>>to media that is more orientated towards communicating semantic content. 
>>It 
>>is relatively easy to extract semantic content from visual media, but I 
>>consider it to be very difficult, if not impossible, to convey visual 
>>aesthetics in another form.  Aesthetics are associated with patterns of 
>>sensory stimuli, with people liking certain patterns whilst disliking 
>>others.  The problem with attempting to convert visual aesthetics to
>>another 
>>sensory modality is that the different sensory systems have different 
>>characteristics.  The sensory memory associated with the different types
>>of 
>>stimuli is thought to have different characteristics, the different types
>>of 
>>stimuli have different threshold values, and have differing spectrums. 
>>So, 
>>I would consider a direct mapping to be out of the question.
>>
>>I don't know of any work that has investigated non-direct mappings
>>between 
>>visual aesthetics and aesthetics for other forms of sensory stimuli.  It 
>>would be an interesting avenue of exploration to see if there were
>>mappings 
>>that not only were visually pleasing, but also resulted in stimuli
>>patterns 
>>that were pleasing in other forms of sensory stimuli.
>>
>>Will 


Lisa Yayla
Huseby Kompetansesenter 
Oslo Norway
lisa.yayla@xxxxxxxxxx

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