Hi Ray, I think System Access is now a screen reader. The reason is that it now has a virtual mouse, as well as all the other stuff, and it presents Windows to the user much as the other screen readers do. Have you tried SA? If not, you really should. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ray's Home Sent: 29 August 2007 23:24 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: guide from software express Steve, interesting comments, and if you've seen my thoughts on what I understand Guide is, , then suite of self-voicing applications' would be more accurate a description than 'screen reader'. That said, wonder how you reckon System Access compares to screen readers proper. It seems to be a considerable saving over the big three, so, in comparison, what do you lose out on by going the System Access route? I have a practical reason for asking, apart from simply being interested. . a local organisation I have a little contact with is wondering how relatively new users, maybe even first time users of IT who are visually impaired, can be encouraged to use computers whilst avoiding the relatively high cost of a full screen reader. Comments on the use of the internet are certainly pertinent as this new local organisation does see the potential of computers for delivering their news letter, and promoting on-line discussions, be these via email, or even, maybe, voice chat. From what's being said, Guide would probably be something of a hindrance more than a help in this objective. I've said this to give some idea of the context in which I'm probing the cost effectiveness of System Access vs. a full screen reader. From Ray I can be contacted off-list at: mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- Steve Nutt Hi Brendan, I agree with all you say, but what bothers me more, is the price of Guide. It's about 400 quid, and I have had people, even of the older generation, who have literally hit Guide's limitations, and come to us to buy Window-Eyes. So having bought Guide, at 400 quid, they then outgrow it, and some people do you know, and then have to shell out another 500 quid for Window-Eyes, or even more for JAWS. This is a heavy investment for anyone, if they are going to hit its limits. With a "real" screen reader, you will not easily outgrow it, because it grows with you. One can hardly say this of Guide, which is, at best, just a few self-talking applications. All the best Steve ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq