[access-uk] Re: d i y ecdl

Regarding Jim's comments about the packs or materials produced by the
RNIB, I'm afraid its a fact of life now that charities, who think of
themselves as 'businesses' produce such material with an eye to
customers who can pay more than an individual, and the price is
probably set with such institutional customers in mind.  If I'm right
in this assertion, then maybe they wouldn't be too keen on supplying
individuals for fear they'd share this resource around and so deprive
RNIB of income.  It may be that a certain amount of support goes with
such packs, I don't know really, but the thing I think is that we're
not really the 'customer';  it is the colleges who are seen as having
money to spare who are the target group.

As for adapting courses, not sure where you draw the line here.
Living, as we do, in a very visual world the standard materials for
courses concentrate very much on use of the mouse, and visual
demonstrations of that.  Not impossible, of course, for screen reader
users, but keyboard commands, where they're available, are avoided
almost like the plague, for fear of intimidating people with all those
key presses.  I think what I'd like to see is a parallel mention of
achieving tasks with the keyboard, at least regarding Windows keyboard
commands, just as, ideally speaking, all applications should
accomodate such options.

Maybe though a bit out of my depth here as I haven't actually
experienced trying to do any of these courses, but it does interest
me.  Certainly, some one to one work would be appropriate in group
situations, I'd have thought.  My impression of what my sister does
when she goes to ECDL sessions is that she's left very much to get on
with it by herself.

Cheers,

From Ray
I can be contacted off-list at:
mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
Jackie Cairns


Yeah I bet they are Jim.  I would only ever embark on such a course if
I was
tied down kicking and screaming (smile.), but good luck if you manage
it.

Whenever I hear of an institution saying they are putting together a
package
of materials to make a course accessible, I hear an alarm bell in my
head
that says oh no, not tampering with the real thing are you?  That will
make
the qualification really pretty pointless if it is adapted too much.
Local
colleges try doing it all the time, and I must admit I was having none
of
that in my time there.  It was either working with the tools I had to
complete it in my own right or not at all.  Work-arounds are
acceptable, but
not revamping the course altogether.

Anyway good luck.

Jackie
----- Original Message -----
From: "jim mcauslan" <axdr89@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 10:06 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: d i y ecdl


>    Hi Jackie,
> I've been talking to some folk at RNIB Loughborough college who have
put
> together   a package of learning materials which cover clait, clait
plus
> and ecdl.  These learning materials and delivery system have been
put
> together so that vi peple can complete these courses independently,
> however the cost comes in at £1000.  My local college are balking at
the
> price.  If I could get funding for it, I would buy it for myself and
give
> it a go but that doesn't look likely.
>
>
> Jim McAuslan from sunny Findhorn
> Minds are like parachutes, they work best when open
> T 01309-690-124
> M 07875-670-833
> e mail
> axdr89@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Skype jmca011
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jackie Cairns" <cairnsplace@xxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:57 AM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: d i y ecdl
>
>
>> Jim and Ray, I thought many moons ago that Dorton College did one
of
>> these courses which was designed with us in mind.  But that was a
long
>> time ago, and I've never ever heard anything positive from a blind
>> perspective about doing one since.  It makes me kind of smile to
think of
>> local colleges taking it on for someone with some or no sight.  I
gave my
>> establishment the run-around doing journalism, and that brought up
>> challenges at every single turn, (grin.)
>>
>> Would BCAB know?
>>
>> Jackie
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "jim mcauslan" <axdr89@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:37 AM
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: d i y ecdl
>>
>>
>>> Hi Ray,
>>>
>>> What surprises me is that the institution that produces ecdl
modules
>>> hasn't been inundated with complaints from vi users and legal
notices
>>> from whoever enforces the DDA legislation.
>>>
>>> Jim McAuslan from sunny Findhorn
>>> Minds are like parachutes, they work best when open
>>> T 01309-690-124
>>> M 07875-670-833
>>> e mail
>>> axdr89@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Skype jmca011
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:25 AM
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: d i y ecdl
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jim, probably not.  We've had at least one person here say that
she
>>>> found the ECDLcourse local to her was not a viable option.
>>>>
>>>> This said, I've seen one or two on other lists mention they've
done
>>>> it, but I suspect they may have had a bit of useful sight.
>>>>
>>>> Must say that what I've seen of the modules my sister is doing -
>>>> (she's notVI) suggest to me that the web based stuff at least
isn't
>>>> really doable.  Seem to recall it uses a lot of flash stuff, and
that
>>>> seems to be very nearly a no go area.
>>>>
>>>> Hope you get some more positive feedback and comments than I'm
giving
>>>> out here.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> From Ray
>>>> I can be contacted off-list at:
>>>> mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> jim mcauslan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi List,
>>>>
>>>> Is there such a thing as a totally doable ecdl for those of us
with no
>>>> sight
>>>> and who want to do it without sighted assistance?  If there is
where
>>>> can I,
>>>> or my local college, find it?  If there isn't then why and what
can
>>>> the
>>>> blind community do about it?
>>>>
>>>> Jim McAuslan from sunny Findhorn
>>>> Minds are like parachutes, they work best when open
>>>> T 01309-690-124
>>>> M 07875-670-833
>>>> e mail
>>>> axdr89@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Skype jmca011

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