[access-uk] Re: Website preferences
- From: "Egan, Bim" <Bim.Egan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 08:22:18 -0000
Absolutely right Damon,
Accessibility is about more than good code. On separate threads
there've been some very valid criticism of RNIB's search engines. The
results are well structured, H1 for the main heading H2 for each result,
have good link text, but the results themselves aren't clever. This
isn't accessibility in its purest form but can make the user experience
feel inaccessible. I'll be reporting the RNIB issues to the teams
concerned.
I like the suggestion of code snippets, this might be a good way to
sting some life back into our blog, which has been in the doldrums for
far too long after we lost it for a year. Thanks for that. There are of
course some great libraries of best practice code, but of course folk
don't know whether or not it's accessible, so flagging up good examples
in those areas might be another way we can make it easier for developers
to make choices.
Cheers,
Bim
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Damon
Sent: 10 March 2011 07:00
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
It's the ideal Bim but more work and effort needs to go into making
websites
usable after being made accessible.
This is usually done by grouping information in good ways using good
HTML
markup as you know. C has to be the only way forward especially as
certain
websites like Disney are even suggesting they have no particular
obligation
to make their site accessible for blind users. I can never imagine them
thinking they'd go the whole hog with a separate site and keep that
maintained, there surely has to be more room to encourage them to build
accessibility into what they've got pointing out benefits like SEO and
multi
platform access as a side benefit.
I'm intrigued by how apple seem to get good access into their IOS apps
by
providing standard buttons and elements. I realise the web is a multiple
platform and browser feast but is there a way RNIB could provide code
snippets to assist access and encourage companies to build on the code?
I see flaws here but it's something that might appeal to the underdog
techies and designers in big companies, who happen to be interested in
access.
But it's mostly about information architecture and page layout.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Egan, Bim" <Bim.Egan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:18 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
> Hi Mike,
>
> I'm really sad to hear about the bad experience with RNIB training, it
> would gall me too if that happened to anyone I know. It isn't part of
> my remit though, and I hope that a strongly worded complaint was sent
to
> the person or people responsible.
>
> As to having a finger on the pulse, does your GP guess at your pulse
> rate if you go to him with a complaint, or does he check it? That's
all
> I'm doing, checking to be certain. If we hadn't had a complaint, then
> we would have probably blithely gone on assuming that everyone wants
> Option C, but a doubt has been raised, and we want to be sure that we
> are really representing your views.
>
> All the best,
>
> Bim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> Of Mike Moore
> Sent: 09 March 2011 20:16
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>
> Hello,
>
> Can I add my two pennies worth?
>
> My local Social Services paid for training for a gentleman, who was
> blind,
> starting to use a computer. The RNIB started offering "free"
training,
> instantly stopping the paid training. The volunteer doing the training
> from
> the RNIB had no experience with JAWS, muddled the gent's computer up
and
> left him high and dry. Now Social Services will not pay for any
further
> training, as this free option is available.
>
> ... And by the way option C and as with others, it is tiresome, as the
> RNIB
> are supposed to have their "finger on the pulse".
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike (I'm not bitter!) :)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> Of
> Egan, Bim
> Sent: 09 March 2011 10:13
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>
> That's a very good point, and I'll certainly put the suggestion in
front
> of
> someone who could do something with it. In fact, the same person who
> inspired this poll is also frustrated by the lack of training
provision.
> In a recent government push to get more older people to use computers,
> she
> was doubly frustrated to learn that the training available couldn't
cope
> with any AT needs.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> Of
> Barry Hill
> Sent: 09 March 2011 10:06
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>
> I would argue that the answer to the problem you posed is assessment,
> training and support at an early stage. I believe that a computer,
> scanner
> and relevant software is an essential piece of kit for vip.
> Consideration
> for this equipment should be in Social Service assessments of needs
and
> the
> training to use it to be given alongside independent living skills.
>
> Perhaps the RNIB could put this suggestion to local authorities.
>
> Cheers
>
> Barry
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> Of
> Egan, Bim
> Sent: 09 March 2011 9:25 AM
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>
> Hi Ian and Colin,
>
> We have always held the view that inclusion is what blind and
partially
> sighted people want, but this has been challenged recently. Someone
> asked
> the not unreasonable question, "How do you know, have you asked?"
> The honest answer to that was that we hadn't. We've held the view on
> the
> basis of general moves in accessibility, views of VI people we know as
> well
> as our personal views. The question now is to see whether we were
right
> or
> wrong.
>
> I'll fill in a bit more background here. There are screen reading
> systems
> that can't cope with modern web site techniques, and people, often
those
> who
> are new to blindness and new to computers, who find the
> volumes of information difficult to deal with. What's the answer for
> these people?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> Of
> Colin Fowler
> Sent: 09 March 2011 09:16
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>
> No, it is very disappointing that the technical lead for the RNIB's
web
> accessibility team is allowing doubt about web accessibility to
> influence
> and ask such questions.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Iain Lackie" <ilackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:08 AM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>
>
>> surely the answer is obviously C. Design should be inclusive and I
> think
>> we have seen too many examples of "special" sites not having all the
>> facilities of the main site or not being properly maintained. I can't
> even
>> see why the question is being asked.
>>
>> Iain
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Egan, Bim
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 7:29 AM
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Website preferences
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Apologies if you see this on other lists ...
>>
>> My name's Bim Egan, I'm the technical lead for RNIB's web access
team.
>> Web designers sometimes look to RNIB for guidance on what
> sight-impaired
>> people need to make a site accessible. Though we have no power to
>> insist that they take our advice, we want to make sure that what we
> say
>> is right for you and others .
>>
>> Could you help us please, by saying which of the following three
> options
>> (A, B or C) would be more likely to suit your needs?
>>
>> A. a text-only site, mirroring the main site with all its features;
> or
>>
>> B. A separate, simplified site made easier for sight-impaired
people,
>
>> but with the risk of missing out on some of the features on the main
>> site; or
>>
>> Option C: If it's possible, one website that is accessible for
> everyone,
>> sighted and unsighted.
>>
>> Option B could mean extra cost for web designers, which they may not
>> like to incur. On the other hand some people who work entirely from
> the
>> keyboard tell us that Options A and C can mean far too many key
> strokes
>> for them.
>>
>> Question: Would it be a good idea for RNIB, as policy, to encourage
>> designers of the more popular or important sites for independent
>> living, (grocery sites for example) to produce an option B version?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Bim
>>
>>
>>
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