Bim, Add to this the fact that many Further Education colleges that used to provide free courses to newly visually impaired people (especially the older generation) have all but stopped this provision. If you drop that one in David Cameron's lap he will just say that colleges must give priority to younger pele. Why can't the RNIB get more funding from the Big Lottery Fund for this type of training. Jim Williams -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Egan, Bim Sent: 09 March 2011 10:13 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences That's a very good point, and I'll certainly put the suggestion in front of someone who could do something with it. In fact, the same person who inspired this poll is also frustrated by the lack of training provision. In a recent government push to get more older people to use computers, she was doubly frustrated to learn that the training available couldn't cope with any AT needs. Thanks, Bim -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Barry Hill Sent: 09 March 2011 10:06 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences I would argue that the answer to the problem you posed is assessment, training and support at an early stage. I believe that a computer, scanner and relevant software is an essential piece of kit for vip. Consideration for this equipment should be in Social Service assessments of needs and the training to use it to be given alongside independent living skills. Perhaps the RNIB could put this suggestion to local authorities. Cheers Barry -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Egan, Bim Sent: 09 March 2011 9:25 AM To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences Hi Ian and Colin, We have always held the view that inclusion is what blind and partially sighted people want, but this has been challenged recently. Someone asked the not unreasonable question, "How do you know, have you asked?" The honest answer to that was that we hadn't. We've held the view on the basis of general moves in accessibility, views of VI people we know as well as our personal views. The question now is to see whether we were right or wrong. I'll fill in a bit more background here. There are screen reading systems that can't cope with modern web site techniques, and people, often those who are new to blindness and new to computers, who find the volumes of information difficult to deal with. What's the answer for these people? Thanks, Bim -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Colin Fowler Sent: 09 March 2011 09:16 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences No, it is very disappointing that the technical lead for the RNIB's web accessibility team is allowing doubt about web accessibility to influence and ask such questions. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iain Lackie" <ilackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:08 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences > surely the answer is obviously C. Design should be inclusive and I think > we have seen too many examples of "special" sites not having all the > facilities of the main site or not being properly maintained. I can't even > see why the question is being asked. > > Iain > > -----Original Message----- > From: Egan, Bim > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 7:29 AM > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [access-uk] Website preferences > > > Hi, > > Apologies if you see this on other lists ... > > My name's Bim Egan, I'm the technical lead for RNIB's web access team. > Web designers sometimes look to RNIB for guidance on what sight-impaired > people need to make a site accessible. Though we have no power to > insist that they take our advice, we want to make sure that what we say > is right for you and others . > > Could you help us please, by saying which of the following three options > (A, B or C) would be more likely to suit your needs? > > A. a text-only site, mirroring the main site with all its features; or > > B. A separate, simplified site made easier for sight-impaired people, > but with the risk of missing out on some of the features on the main > site; or > > Option C: If it's possible, one website that is accessible for everyone, > sighted and unsighted. > > Option B could mean extra cost for web designers, which they may not > like to incur. On the other hand some people who work entirely from the > keyboard tell us that Options A and C can mean far too many key strokes > for them. > > Question: Would it be a good idea for RNIB, as policy, to encourage > designers of the more popular or important sites for independent > living, (grocery sites for example) to produce an option B version? > > Thank you. > > Bim > > > > -- > DISCLAIMER: > > NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is > confidential and may be privileged. 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However, it > cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are transmitted. > We therefore recommend you scan all attachments. > > Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and > any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily represent > those of RNIB. > > RNIB Registered Charity Number: 226227 > > Website: http://www.rnib.org.uk > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Websense Hosted Security - > http://www.websense.com/content/HostedEmailSecurity.aspx > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > > > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq To report this e-mail as Spam, please forward it to: spam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq