[access-uk] Re: Web access: we could be a force (was: Re: Sainsbury's)
- From: "Catherine Turner" <catherineturner2000@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:42:07 -0000
I haven't followed all the ins and outs of this discussion, but I'm willing
to be part of some group sending strategic e-mails/phonecalls. I think it's
good to have a mixture of random individual complaints/comments, and perhaps
sometimes a more organised, targeted campaign. I know a fair amount about
web development, accessibility and usability and if anyone's setting up some
kind of list please put me on it.
Catherine
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf
> Of Colin Fowler
> Sent: 27 January 2005 11:37
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Web access: we could be a force (was: Re:
> Sainsbury's)
>
>
> it was the ambiguity of her post. I understand quite well in
> which spheres
> you both work and the difficulty of dismantling the barriers of
> inaccessibility without some contribution and constructive input from the
> invisible audience.
>
> Personally I feel that the previous paid for accreditation scheme of the
> 'See it Right' campaign was not as constructive as desired. Perhaps the
> DRC's web accessibility campaign will be more useful and look less like a
> paid for accolade for web developers to rely on.
>
> But this apart, I do agree that as users we have the responsibility to
> educate and inform, and support your idea to campaign; hopefully
> by direct
> action, for better and more usability in web development.
>
> Likewise, as end users, we also have the duty to identify persistent non
> compliance of good web accessibility and use the legislation to
> make all web
> developers look up and pay attention.
>
> Colin F
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Damon Rose" <damon.rose@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 9:46 AM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Web access: we could be a force (was: Re:
> Sainsbury's)
>
>
> > No Colin I think you misunderstood Leoni.
> >
> > Like me she works on web development and usability a lot. She talks to
> > people about making their sites accessible. They ask for written down
> > guidelines. They want resources. But at the end of the day, if they
> > don't see visually impaired users in action, it's an entirely abstract
> > concept. To them, they have to do all this annoying work. OK
> so lots of
> > them do it because they agree with the idea of equality but others feel
> > they're doing it to stay on the right side of the law.
> >
> > They may play around with a screenreader even, usually getting
> very little
> > understanding for obvious reasons, but they don't have human
> contact with
> > disabled people. The other fallout here is that they don't see the
> > benefit of their work nor the passion, distress and frustration.
> >
> > ...Damon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf
> > Of Colin Fowler
> > Sent: 26 January 2005 16:05
> > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [access-uk] Re: Web access: we could be a force (was: Re:
> > Sainsbury's)
> >
> >
> > so? tell us something we don't already know. This is the
> charity model of
> > slowly slowly, never never!
> >
> > Colin F
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Léonie Watson" <lw@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:18 PM
> > Subject: [access-uk] Re: Web access: we could be a force (was: Re:
> > Sainsbury's)
> >
> >
> >> Damon,
> >>
> >> It's very true that we are often regarded as an abstract user
> >> group.
> >> Companies will be told that they need to consider our needs,
> but there is
> >> no bridge for the divide between theoretical knowledge and actually
> >> having
> >> contact with a representative of that group.
> >>
> >> Tink.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Damon Rose" <damon.rose@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:16 PM
> >> Subject: [access-uk] Web access: we could be a force (was: Re:
> >> Sainsbury's)
> >>
> >>
> >>> Am not talking about Sainsburys here, just musing to myself.
> >>>
> >>> Ya know something listers. We could be so much more proactive as a
> >>> group
> >>> when trying to push for web accessibility on those stubborn sites that
> >>> won't address our emails or attempt change. WE've got some amazing
> >>> communities on the blind techie lists in this country, this is one of
> >>> them, and collectively we could be quite a big force. For instance,
> >>> targeted email campaigns. Targeted ringing of telephones in their
> >>> office, etc.
> >>>
> >>> Part of the issue is that they don't realise we're here in numbers
> >>> and
> >>> want to use their services. They don't see us as a market
> ... And they
> >>> don't see us as any kind of collective force or threat either.
> >>>
> >>> I wonder who they think these abstract blind screenreader and screen
> >>> enlargement users are that they hear so much about?
> >>>
> >>> And maybe they'd think about accessibility that bit more if the
> >>> consequences were that their email boxes got flooded on particular
> >>> target
> >>> days or their phones all started ringing every 5 minutes.
> >>>
> >>> When necessary, we should be a streamlined task force hitting on
> >>> these
> >>> purveyors of inaccessibility.
> >>>
> >>> Anyone else got any thoughts on this?
> >>>
> >>> ...Damon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of kevin and emma
> >>> Sent: 26 January 2005 13:08
> >>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Sainsbury's
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> i emailed sainsbury's at the time, but got no joy, they replied but
> >>> didn't know what was wrong. this happened on different computers, on
> >>> different days, with different items! believe me, when you
> spend an hour
> >>> and a half filling your trolley and then it all suddenly disappears!!
> >>> .... kevin - co-owner/moderator of the blind gamers discussion list.
> >>> email/msn: kream@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Léonie Watson" <lw@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:13 PM
> >>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Sainsbury's
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Kevin,
> >>>>
> >>>> You too? That happens to me, but I'd just assumed it was my
> >>>> scatterbrain, forgetting what I'd put in, when I returned from the
> >>>> usual interuptions to getting anything done. *Smile.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tink.
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "kevin and emma" <kream@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:33 AM
> >>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Sainsbury's
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> > hmm, might have to take another look at it. last time i used it,
> >>> whenever
> >>>> > i
> >>>> > went to look in my trolley, or to check out, 75% of the items i'd
> >>>> > put in the trolley disappeared!! kevin - co-owner/moderator of the
> >>>> > blind gamers discussion list.
> >>>> > email/msn: kream@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> > From: "SHARON BOWELL" <sharon.bowell1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> > To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:11 AM
> >>>> > Subject: [access-uk] Re: Sainsbury's
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Hi Tink,
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Yes it did change very recently. I started my shop on Sunday, and
> >>>> > went to finish off yesterday and it was like that. It really
> >>>> > confused me for a minute, as I just could not see how to add to
> >>>> > trolley.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I'll mention to Sainsbury's about changing the text though.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Thanks.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Sharon
> >>>> >
> >>>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>>> > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >>>> > Behalf Of Léonie Watson
> >>>> > Sent: 26 January 2005 09:32
> >>>> > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> > Subject: [access-uk] Re: Sainsbury's
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Sharon,
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I guess they must have changed this very recently, as I don't
> >>>> > recall it being like this last week when I did my shopping.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > It is something of an odd way of doing things, but thinking
> >>>> > about it it does work quite well when you get used to it.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Previously, I'd hit the "Add To Cart" link each time I wanted
> >>>> > to add an item to the trolley. So if I wanted to add 2 lemons, I'd
> >>>> > hit the link twice. I found this very straightforward, as the
> >>>> > focus on the page didn't change.
> >>>> > Conversely, I almost never used to enter forms mode, to enter the
> >>>> > number
> >>>> > of
> >>>> > items in in one go, because I found doing it like that
> lost focus on
> >>>> > the
> >>>> >
> >>>> > page and I'd have to back track to the relevant bit.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > The one thing that was annoying was if I'd added one too many
> >>>> > by accident, or belatedly changed my mind about buying something.
> >>>> > It meant having to go to the trolley and remove it, which was a
> >>>> > bit of a pain. I suppose this way you can just hit the link to
> >>>> > subtract an item on the spot.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > It could be worth suggesting to Sainsburys that they alter the
> >>>> > link text slightly. Instead of having "Increase the quantity
> >>>> > of..." they could have "Increase the quantity of... in your
> >>>> > trolley". This would make the purpose
> >>>> > of the link much clearer.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > On the whole, Sainsbury's are usually receptive to feedback
> >>>> > like this, so it could be worth a shot.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Cheers,
> >>>> > Tink.
> >>>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> > From: "SHARON BOWELL" <sharon.bowell1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> > To: "Access UK" <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:02 AM
> >>>> > Subject: [access-uk] Sainsbury's
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> Hi,
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> I sent this yesterday, but did not see it on the list. If it did
> >>>> >> appear, please accept my apologies.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Has anyone been on the Sainsbury's site recently. They have done
> >>>> >> a major change, and it seems fine apart from adding products to
> >>>> >> the trolley. This is not very clear any more, in fact I thought
> >>>> >> they had omitted it altogether.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> There now seems to be a decrease and increase quantity button,
> >>>> >> and that is it. I contacted the site about this and they said
> >>>> >> that is how
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> it is supposed to be. I found the only way to add items to my
> >>>> >> trolley
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> was to click on the increase quantity. I expected this to
> >>>> >> increase the quantity in the quantity box, not add to ones
> >>>> >> trolley.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> If anyone has a few minutes perhaps you may like to have a look.
> >>>> >> sainsburystoyou.com.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Thanks.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Sharon
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >
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