[access-uk] Re: Web access: we could be a force (was: Re: Sainsbury's)

  • From: "Colin Fowler" <colin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 11:37:16 -0000

it was the ambiguity of her post. I understand quite well in which spheres you both work and the difficulty of dismantling the barriers of inaccessibility without some contribution and constructive input from the invisible audience.

Personally I feel that the previous paid for accreditation scheme of the 'See it Right' campaign was not as constructive as desired. Perhaps the DRC's web accessibility campaign will be more useful and look less like a paid for accolade for web developers to rely on.

But this apart, I do agree that as users we have the responsibility to educate and inform, and support your idea to campaign; hopefully by direct action, for better and more usability in web development.

Likewise, as end users, we also have the duty to identify persistent non compliance of good web accessibility and use the legislation to make all web developers look up and pay attention.

Colin F




----- Original Message ----- From: "Damon Rose" <damon.rose@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 9:46 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Web access: we could be a force (was: Re: Sainsbury's)



No Colin I think you misunderstood Leoni.

Like me she works on web development and usability a lot. She talks to people about making their sites accessible. They ask for written down guidelines. They want resources. But at the end of the day, if they don't see visually impaired users in action, it's an entirely abstract concept. To them, they have to do all this annoying work. OK so lots of them do it because they agree with the idea of equality but others feel they're doing it to stay on the right side of the law.

They may play around with a screenreader even, usually getting very little understanding for obvious reasons, but they don't have human contact with disabled people. The other fallout here is that they don't see the benefit of their work nor the passion, distress and frustration.

...Damon

















-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Colin Fowler
Sent: 26 January 2005 16:05
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Web access: we could be a force (was: Re: Sainsbury's)



so? tell us something we don't already know. This is the charity model of slowly slowly, never never!

Colin F


----- Original Message ----- From: "Léonie Watson" <lw@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:18 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Web access: we could be a force (was: Re:
Sainsbury's)



Damon,

It's very true that we are often regarded as an abstract user
group.
Companies will be told that they need to consider our needs, but there is
no bridge for the divide between theoretical knowledge and actually having
contact with a representative of that group.


Tink.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Damon Rose" <damon.rose@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:16 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Web access: we could be a force (was: Re:
Sainsbury's)


Am not talking about Sainsburys here, just musing to myself.

Ya know something listers.  We could be so much more proactive as a
group
when trying to push for web accessibility on those stubborn sites that
won't address our emails or attempt change.  WE've got some amazing
communities on the blind techie lists in this country, this is one of
them, and collectively we could be quite a big force.  For instance,
targeted email campaigns.  Targeted ringing of telephones in their
office, etc.

Part of the issue is that they don't realise we're here in numbers
and
want to use their services.  They don't see us as a market ... And they
don't see us as any kind of collective force or threat either.

I wonder who they think these abstract blind screenreader and screen
enlargement users are that they hear so much about?

And maybe they'd think about accessibility that bit more if the
consequences were that their email boxes got flooded on particular target
days or their phones all started ringing every 5 minutes.


When necessary, we should be a streamlined task force hitting on
these
purveyors of inaccessibility.

Anyone else got any thoughts on this?

...Damon























-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of kevin and emma
Sent: 26 January 2005 13:08
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Sainsbury's


i emailed sainsbury's at the time, but got no joy, they replied but
didn't know what was wrong. this happened on different computers, on
different days, with different items! believe me, when you spend an hour
and a half filling your trolley and then it all suddenly disappears!!
.... kevin - co-owner/moderator of the blind gamers discussion list.
email/msn: kream@xxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message ----- From: "Léonie Watson" <lw@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:13 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Sainsbury's



Kevin,

    You too? That happens to me, but I'd just assumed it was my
scatterbrain, forgetting what I'd put in, when I returned from the
usual interuptions to getting anything done. *Smile.

Tink.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevin and emma" <kream@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:33 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Sainsbury's


> hmm, might have to take another look at it. last time i used it,
whenever
> i
> went to look in my trolley, or to check out, 75% of the items i'd
> put in the trolley disappeared!! kevin - co-owner/moderator of the
> blind gamers discussion list.
> email/msn: kream@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "SHARON BOWELL" <sharon.bowell1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:11 AM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Sainsbury's
>
>
> Hi Tink,
>
> Yes it did change very recently.  I started my shop on Sunday, and
> went to finish off yesterday and it was like that.  It really
> confused me for a minute, as I just could not see how to add to
> trolley.
>
> I'll mention to Sainsbury's about changing the text though.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sharon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Léonie Watson
> Sent: 26 January 2005 09:32
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Sainsbury's
>
>
> Sharon,
>
>    I guess they must have changed this very recently, as I don't
> recall it being like this last week when I did my shopping.
>
>    It is something of an odd way of doing things, but thinking
> about it it does work quite well when you get used to it.
>
>    Previously, I'd hit the "Add To Cart" link each time I wanted
> to add an item to the trolley. So if I wanted to add 2 lemons, I'd
> hit the link twice. I found this very straightforward, as the
> focus on the page didn't change.
> Conversely, I almost never used to enter forms mode, to enter the
> number
> of
> items in in one go, because I found doing it like that lost focus on
> the
>
> page and I'd have to back track to the relevant bit.
>
>    The one thing that was annoying was if I'd added one too many
> by accident, or belatedly changed my mind about buying something.
> It meant having to go to the trolley and remove it, which was a
> bit of a pain. I suppose this way you can just hit the link to
> subtract an item on the spot.
>
>    It could be worth suggesting to Sainsburys that they alter the
> link text slightly. Instead of having "Increase the quantity
> of..." they could have "Increase the quantity of... in your
> trolley". This would make the purpose
> of the link much clearer.
>
>    On the whole, Sainsbury's are usually receptive to feedback
> like this, so it could be worth a shot.
>
> Cheers,
> Tink.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "SHARON BOWELL" <sharon.bowell1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Access UK" <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:02 AM
> Subject: [access-uk] Sainsbury's
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I sent this yesterday, but did not see it on the list.  If it did
>> appear, please accept my apologies.
>>
>> Has anyone been on the Sainsbury's site recently.  They have done
>> a major change, and it seems fine apart from adding products to
>> the trolley.  This is not very clear any more, in fact I thought
>> they had omitted it altogether.
>>
>> There now seems to be a decrease and increase quantity button,
>> and that is it.  I contacted the site about this and they said
>> that is how
>
>> it is supposed to be.  I found the only way to add items to my
>> trolley
>
>> was to click on the increase quantity.  I expected this to
>> increase the quantity in the quantity box, not add to ones
>> trolley.
>>
>> If anyone has a few minutes perhaps you may like to have a look.
>> sainsburystoyou.com.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Sharon
>>
>
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