[access-uk] Re: Web Radio again - on In Touch

  • From: "Jackie Cairns" <cairnsplace@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:38:45 +0100

Thanks Dave for the BCAB info. I might well take a look at the list when I return from being away for a few days next week. 


Jackie

Email: cairnsplace@xxxxxxx
Skype Name: Cairnsplace
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Taylor" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 1:27 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Web Radio again - on In Touch



Oh there will be all sorts of subscriptions to pay with it, depending on
what services you want on it. This is one of the main drawbacks with a
system that has to be updated like this.

We've had a very informative response from RNIB about the whole project on
the BCAB list. List and archive at freelists. If you want input into things 
like this, BCAB is a good thing to join!

Cheers
Dave

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jackie Cairns" <cairnsplace@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 1:24 PM
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject:  [access-uk] Re: Web Radio again - on In Touch
If I might just chuck in one more thought that I didn't include in my review because I couldn't get clarification on this point. The Web Box itself gave information that there will be a yearly £25 charge for what it describes as "administration", so it will be interesting to see if this charge rises and, indeed, what it is for, for those who buy it. Since it was only a trial box 
I tried out and returned, I didn't know if this figure had been revamped
since its tagged message, or whether it still exists.

Jackie

Email: cairnsplace@xxxxxxx
Skype Name: Cairnsplace
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 12:59 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Web Radio again - on In Touch



Maybe voice tagging is the issue, or then again, maybe it is the model
here being promoted thus far of centralised updating of the  web box
that is the issue.  I wonder how reliable, timely, and for how long into
the future this remote updating will be carried out.  So many projects
these days fall down on under estimates of the costs involved in
staffing even this sort of on-line updating.  For example, The
commercial enterprise behind the old talking Freeview box weren't
prepared to meet the on-going cost of updating the voice tags.

To go off too at a  slightly tangential  but I think related parallel,
the Reveal Accessible books database is gradually being closed down as
RNIB isn't prepared, it seems, to meet the on-going cost of maintaining
this valuable resource.

I note your comments, below, with interest.  You yourself though pointed
out to me that maybe it is older people this web box will be primarily
aimed at, so possibly not the need for an infinite number of stations to
be available.  I think that's maybe taking - shal I say - a dim view of
older people's needs and preferences.  Voice tagging though is all very
well when the device only has to operate with an unchanging set of
prompts;  that's not the case though with web radio and streams which
are by their nature very dynamic.

Cheers,

From Ray
I can be contacted off-list at:
mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
Peter Beasley
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Web Radio again - on In Touch

It is this voice tagging where the problem lies.  Why can't they use
text to
speach  as there are someexcellent voices around these days.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Page" <gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Web Radio again - on In Touch



Hi Ray and others.

I feel it is necessary, as one of a number who have trialed this

product

to
clear up some misunderstandings.

First, as I have already stated here and in other places, I think the
Orion
Webbox is an interesting product that moves accessibility forward.

The

product essentially streams audio from a number of sources.

More people seem interested in the Internet Radio side of things and I
must
say I had high hopes there as well.

I should make it clear that the Webbox can be updated remotely so that
when
you turn the unit on it can be recognised by a server and any upgrades

can

be performed totally automatically.    I should explain that at the

time

of
turn on the user is given various menus to proceed through.  In

general,

each menu item is a voice tag or a piece of recorded audio.  Station

names

or  publication titles take this form.  This is workable with

publications

where titles change in a predictable way.

The problem with internet radio is that each station needs a voice tag

to

be
set up for it and this requires an organisation such as TNAUK to

intervene

directly in order to add this title by creating a voice tag and
associating
a link to the station's online stream.  This takes up work but there

is

also
another problem with the interface.  In order to do Internet radio in

any

kind of comprehensive way the structure would need to be changed.
Currently
on the RNIB system, radio stations are in 2 lists, one of mainly bbc

local

stations and the other called Internet Radio which is a mixture of

other

stations.  You need to scroll individually through the menus and when

you

finish listening to a station you go back to the top of the list.

Menus

therefore have to be kept short which means stations need to be
categorised.

The work of tagging and categorising stations means in reality that

this

product will never offer the range of radio stations carried on

commercial

products.  Maintaining and updating the list would be too bigg a job.

I am glad I took part in the trial but in my opinion this product is
really
at the stage of proof of concept.  It is quite good for listening to

pod

casts and, if you are prepared to move chapter by chapter it can be

used

for
listening to books though daisy navigation is only available at one

level

so
you can only really move by chapter.  winding through text like using

the

rewind or forward buttons on a CD player is still really slow.

In the RNIB evaluation, the headline figure in my view is that 85

percent

of
the trialists were impressed with the web box but the majority of them
felt
that it needed significant modifications though it was designed quite
well.
Here I agree.   It is a decent prototype, a good first stab.  I have

said

this before I know but I really do think that RNIB did a good job
trialling
this product and I think credit should be given where it is due.

I think it is a shame that TNAUK have decided to market the Webbox at

this

stage as in my view it is just not really fit for purpose yet though

with

a
little financial input and the right people working on the project I

see

no
reason why it cannot be a success in the near future.

Regards

Graham

Regards



Graham Page
Home Phone: 0207 265 9493
Mobile: 07753 607980
Fax:  0870 706 2773
Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: gabriel_mcbird

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:22 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Web Radio again - on In Touch


Very interesting.  So, was Jackie not offered this over night updating
of all the stations she would have liked?  Or, was this not mentioned

to

her?



From Ray
I can be contacted off-list at:
mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
Christopher Maule-Oatway
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Web Radio again - on In Touch


Hello,

Ray, the TNAUK man, Ted Davis, definitely said that the customer
asked to have the two extra local radio stations added, which had
been done by the next morning.

If this box is made available through Wireless for the Blind, I would
certainly be keen to get hold of one, and then would enjoy asking
TNAUK to add the numerous European stations that are bookmarked on my
PC.

Cheers,

Christopher


At 20:54 15/04/2008 +0100, you wrote:

Just heard the guy from TNAUK on In Touch being interviewed about the
web radio.

Confused a little by one thing he said, that someone's web box was
seemingly updated over night to get a local station.  So, is it

possible

after all to do this remotely?  Or have I mis-heard this.   bit of the
programme?

Seems though that Wireless for the Blind fund is now interested so

many

might stand to get it for free, so we're led to understand.

I must say though that In Touch and those taking part seem to live in
splendid isolation re. comments on this list over the last month or

so.

You'd think this is "Thee Solution" to hear them talk on the

programme,

but we all know it isn't.  It will be all the more interesting to hear
what RNIB decides.

Cheers,

From Ray
I can be contacted off-list at:
mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx


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