[access-uk] Re: Table Layout - was Tesco Check Out for Carol

Hi George.  Sort of, but you don't need to keep looking at the top row with 
JAWS because the row and column headings are read as you move accross the 
page.

Carole, step back from your arguments with steve and consider the advice 
about tables people give you or you may just end up using those pill boxes 
for real!!!

Cheers

Graham
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:44 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Table Layout - was Tesco Check Out for Carol


Hi Carol,

I'll take a stab at describing very, very simple tables to
you.  (Make no mistake, the following text may well be used
by me in a braille software product I work with, so it will
be good practice for me!  Smile)

Imagine a row of say 7 empty boxes, lying on their side so
that you can put your hand in the front.  Note my use of the
word "row".

Now let us suppose we are going to use these 7 boxes to put
something in for each day of the week.  But how do we know
which box is which?  The simplest way is to put another
closed box on top of each of the open boxes, and then write
the day of the week on each box.  Let's start with Sunday on
the left, then Monday, Tuesday, etc., through to Saturday
which will be on the far right.

So now you have two rows of boxes, and seven columns, each
column being two boxes high, with the name of each day at
the top. (Note the use of the word "column".

As we have many things to do during the week, we could write
lots of notes and pop them into the appropriate box.  If we
were on medication, we might also want to put our day's
ration of pills in the boxes, rather like we might use one
of those medicinal pill boxes with the days of the week in
braille on the covers.

But if we did that, our notes would get mixed up with our
pills.  So what's the solution?  We add another row of boxes
under the seven we already have, and put notes in one, and
pills in the other.

Ah, but which of the two boxes in each column do we put
things into?  The solution is to add another column of three
closed boxes on the left.  The top one we perhaps mark "Days
of the week", the second one "Notes", and the third one
"Pills".  Now we can tell what is in each row.

So now, you can easily go to either a day of the week,
underneath which you will find your notes, and below that
your pills.

But then you go to your doctor, and he gives you a
prescription where you need to start taking extra pills
today  Thursday), hence you need to add these to the "Pills"
row.

So you look down the left hand column of descriptions, until
you find the "Pills" row, and then you look along that row,
also looking at the top row of "Days" until you get to
"Thursday" - in start putting the new pills into the pill
boxes.

So now you have a table with columns representing days of
the week, and rows for different things to be done on each
day.

Am I making any sense?

George.



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carol Pearson
Sent: 20 April 2006 12:08
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco Check Out for Carol

I'm using Jaws.  I have used tables a little but don't have
too much use for them.  I don't really understand the
layout, that's the problem.  Contrary to Steve's thinking, I
believe that some blind people have a much better grasp than
others of layout and that's maybe why I don't understand
what I have to do there to select a day and time.

I appreciate your question.  Thanks for showing an interest.

Carol


> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ian Robinson" <ian.subs1@xxxxxxxxxx
>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:39:37 +0100
>Subject: [access-uk] Tesco Check Out for Carol

>Hi Carol,

>First of all, which screen reader are you using?

>Regards.

>Ian

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Carol Pearson" <carol.pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:27 AM
>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history


>> Hi Steve,

>> That doesn't help me to understand the page (because I'm
blind, don't
>> forget, and don't have too much conception of these
things)
>> and I don't know exactly what you look for first.

>> OK: no doubt someone will come up with the goodies!  I
hardly think
>> this is a day's training and trainers may be better off
the
>> list if they're going to keep beefing about what they
will and will
>> not help with on list.

>> George is a fine example of going that extra mile, by the
way, and
>> I'm sure glad he's around.

>> Now, I'm not meaning to stick the knife at all, but it's
my
>> experience that some of us find this tech stuff pretty
hard
going
>> these days and we need all the help we can get.

>> Thanks to all those who give it willingly and free of
charge.

>> CAROL - who's sorry she sometimes just has to speak her
mind!

>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:54:49 +0100
>>>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history

>>>Hi Carol,

>>>Absolutely not.  I consider it screen reader training,
and some
>> of us need
>>>to make a living <Smile>.  But the trick is to get to
know your
>> table
>>>navigation mode in JAWS.  It is certainly do-able in both
screen
>> readers.
>>>Hal, I am not sure about, as I have never tried it.

>>>All the best
>>>--
>>>Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind computer
users.
>>>Telephone Low-call:  08452 606 277
>>>International:  +44(0)1438 742286,
>>>Fax:  +44(0)1438 759589
>>>mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938,
>>>Email:  mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk

>>>All the best
>>>--
>>>Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind computer
users.
>>>Telephone Low-call:  08452 606 277
>>>International:  +44(0)1438 742286,
>>>Fax:  +44(0)1438 759589
>>>mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938,
>>>Email:  mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk

>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of
>>>Carol Pearson
>>>Sent: 19 April 2006 22:59
>>>To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history

>>>Steve,

>>>I think the problem also may be that some of us don't
really
>> understand the
>>>layout and some JAWS users have said they can't do it
either,
>> including
>>>myself - so forget this "techy payment"
>>>thing and just give us some pointers on the mailing list
because,
>> after all,
>>>that's what most of us are here for!  <Smile

>>>Carol


>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:40:28 +0100
>>>>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history

>>>>Hi Sandra,

>>>>You just need to use your table navigation keys to book
a
>>>delivery slot on
>>>>the main site.  If you like, you can pay me a tenner
plus VAT for
>>>an hour's
>>>>training, and I'll take you through it in real time on
the phone.
>>>It is not
>>>>at all difficult.  There is really no reason at all to
use that
>>>crappy
>>>>access site.

>>>>All the best
>>>>--
>>>>Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind
computer users.
>>>>Telephone Low-call:  08452 606 277
>>>>International:  +44(0)1438 742286,
>>>>Fax:  +44(0)1438 759589
>>>>mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938,
>>>>Email:  mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk

>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>Behalf Of
>>>>Sandra Henshall
>>>>Sent: 18 April 2006 18:09
>>>>To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history

>>>>It's been nearly a year now since Tesco informed us that
they
>>>were amending
>>>>the access site and were looking for volunteers to try
it out.  I
>>>put my
>>>>name down at that time and they said they would contact
me in two
>>>weeks.
>>>>They didn't and there was no new access site.  Now they
say the
>>>new access
>>>>site will be up and running in July I think it is and
once again
>>>I put my
>>>>name down to try it out.  Once again, no response from
Tesco.  If
>>>they don't
>>>>want to run the access site, then why don't they make
sure the
>>>main site is
>>>>totally accessible.  I do actually use the main site but
pay for
>>>my shopping
>>>>on the access site because I haven't yet worked out how
to book a
>>>delivery
>>>>slot on the main site.  It's about time they ditched the
access
>>>site
>>>>altogether and made the main site screen reader
friendly.
>>>>Just my two pence worth.

>>>>Cheers,
>>>>Sandra.

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