[access-uk] Re: Table Layout - was Tesco Check Out for Carol

Hi George,

I must admit, that is the best description of tables I have seen for a long
time.  I learned the concept of them at RNC when I did my audio typing
course, but I don't remember the description being that good.

So what you need to do in the case of Tesco, is to move through the table
with JAWS, using control-alt-up, down, left and right.  So if you
control-alt-right from the first column and row to the day of the week you
want, then control-alt-down to the time you want, if that time is available,
you should hear a link giving the price of the service.  Press enter on that
link, then you have booked your delivery slot.  If the time you want is not
available, then you won't hear anything in the case of Window-Eyes, but I
haven't tried it with JAWS lately.  However, the process should be the same.
The way to confirm what day you are on, is to read the top row, and the way
to find out what time you are on, is to read the beginning of the row you
are currently on.  In other words, to use George's excellent description as
an example, the days of the week are going across, and the boxes of pills
are going downwards.  But you can't just read down with your screen reader
without utilising table navigation in this mode, because Virtual PC Cursor
mode decolumnises everything, so it then doesn't make sense.  So in this
case, table navigation is the only solution.

This is why I said it was quite tricky.  It is quite hard for me to explain
to you without you being in front of your screen reader, but if this helps,
that's great.  And again, I am not trying to be patronising, it is just that
putting it over for me is tricky.

Thanks George for the description.

All the best
--
Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind computer users.
Telephone Low-call:  08452 606 277
International:  +44(0)1438 742286, 
Fax:  +44(0)1438 759589
mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938, 
Email:  mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk 

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
George Bell
Sent: 20 April 2006 13:44
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Table Layout - was Tesco Check Out for Carol

Hi Carol,

I'll take a stab at describing very, very simple tables to you.  (Make no
mistake, the following text may well be used by me in a braille software
product I work with, so it will be good practice for me!  Smile)

Imagine a row of say 7 empty boxes, lying on their side so that you can put
your hand in the front.  Note my use of the word "row".

Now let us suppose we are going to use these 7 boxes to put something in for
each day of the week.  But how do we know which box is which?  The simplest
way is to put another closed box on top of each of the open boxes, and then
write the day of the week on each box.  Let's start with Sunday on the left,
then Monday, Tuesday, etc., through to Saturday which will be on the far
right.

So now you have two rows of boxes, and seven columns, each column being two
boxes high, with the name of each day at the top. (Note the use of the word
"column".

As we have many things to do during the week, we could write lots of notes
and pop them into the appropriate box.  If we were on medication, we might
also want to put our day's ration of pills in the boxes, rather like we
might use one of those medicinal pill boxes with the days of the week in
braille on the covers. 

But if we did that, our notes would get mixed up with our pills.  So what's
the solution?  We add another row of boxes under the seven we already have,
and put notes in one, and pills in the other.

Ah, but which of the two boxes in each column do we put things into?  The
solution is to add another column of three closed boxes on the left.  The
top one we perhaps mark "Days of the week", the second one "Notes", and the
third one "Pills".  Now we can tell what is in each row.

So now, you can easily go to either a day of the week, underneath which you
will find your notes, and below that your pills.

But then you go to your doctor, and he gives you a prescription where you
need to start taking extra pills today  Thursday), hence you need to add
these to the "Pills"
row.

So you look down the left hand column of descriptions, until you find the
"Pills" row, and then you look along that row, also looking at the top row
of "Days" until you get to "Thursday" - in start putting the new pills into
the pill boxes.

So now you have a table with columns representing days of the week, and rows
for different things to be done on each day.

Am I making any sense?

George.



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carol Pearson
Sent: 20 April 2006 12:08
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco Check Out for Carol

I'm using Jaws.  I have used tables a little but don't have too much use for
them.  I don't really understand the layout, that's the problem.  Contrary
to Steve's thinking, I believe that some blind people have a much better
grasp than others of layout and that's maybe why I don't understand what I
have to do there to select a day and time.

I appreciate your question.  Thanks for showing an interest.

Carol


> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ian Robinson" <ian.subs1@xxxxxxxxxx
>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:39:37 +0100
>Subject: [access-uk] Tesco Check Out for Carol

>Hi Carol,

>First of all, which screen reader are you using?

>Regards.

>Ian

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Carol Pearson" <carol.pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:27 AM
>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history


>> Hi Steve,

>> That doesn't help me to understand the page (because I'm
blind, don't 
>> forget, and don't have too much conception of these
things)
>> and I don't know exactly what you look for first.

>> OK: no doubt someone will come up with the goodies!  I
hardly think 
>> this is a day's training and trainers may be better off
the
>> list if they're going to keep beefing about what they
will and will 
>> not help with on list.

>> George is a fine example of going that extra mile, by the
way, and 
>> I'm sure glad he's around.

>> Now, I'm not meaning to stick the knife at all, but it's
my 
>> experience that some of us find this tech stuff pretty
hard
going
>> these days and we need all the help we can get.

>> Thanks to all those who give it willingly and free of
charge.

>> CAROL - who's sorry she sometimes just has to speak her
mind!

>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:54:49 +0100
>>>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history

>>>Hi Carol,

>>>Absolutely not.  I consider it screen reader training,
and some
>> of us need
>>>to make a living <Smile>.  But the trick is to get to
know your
>> table
>>>navigation mode in JAWS.  It is certainly do-able in both
screen
>> readers.
>>>Hal, I am not sure about, as I have never tried it.

>>>All the best
>>>--
>>>Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind computer
users.
>>>Telephone Low-call:  08452 606 277
>>>International:  +44(0)1438 742286,
>>>Fax:  +44(0)1438 759589
>>>mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938,
>>>Email:  mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk

>>>All the best
>>>--
>>>Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind computer
users.
>>>Telephone Low-call:  08452 606 277
>>>International:  +44(0)1438 742286,
>>>Fax:  +44(0)1438 759589
>>>mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938,
>>>Email:  mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk

>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of
>>>Carol Pearson
>>>Sent: 19 April 2006 22:59
>>>To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history

>>>Steve,

>>>I think the problem also may be that some of us don't
really
>> understand the
>>>layout and some JAWS users have said they can't do it
either,
>> including
>>>myself - so forget this "techy payment"
>>>thing and just give us some pointers on the mailing list
because,
>> after all,
>>>that's what most of us are here for!  <Smile

>>>Carol


>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:40:28 +0100
>>>>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history

>>>>Hi Sandra,

>>>>You just need to use your table navigation keys to book
a
>>>delivery slot on
>>>>the main site.  If you like, you can pay me a tenner
plus VAT for
>>>an hour's
>>>>training, and I'll take you through it in real time on
the phone.
>>>It is not
>>>>at all difficult.  There is really no reason at all to
use that
>>>crappy
>>>>access site.

>>>>All the best
>>>>--
>>>>Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind
computer users.
>>>>Telephone Low-call:  08452 606 277
>>>>International:  +44(0)1438 742286,
>>>>Fax:  +44(0)1438 759589
>>>>mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938,
>>>>Email:  mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk

>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>Behalf Of
>>>>Sandra Henshall
>>>>Sent: 18 April 2006 18:09
>>>>To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history

>>>>It's been nearly a year now since Tesco informed us that
they
>>>were amending
>>>>the access site and were looking for volunteers to try
it out.  I
>>>put my
>>>>name down at that time and they said they would contact
me in two
>>>weeks.
>>>>They didn't and there was no new access site.  Now they
say the
>>>new access
>>>>site will be up and running in July I think it is and
once again
>>>I put my
>>>>name down to try it out.  Once again, no response from
Tesco.  If
>>>they don't
>>>>want to run the access site, then why don't they make
sure the
>>>main site is
>>>>totally accessible.  I do actually use the main site but
pay for
>>>my shopping
>>>>on the access site because I haven't yet worked out how
to book a
>>>delivery
>>>>slot on the main site.  It's about time they ditched the
access
>>>site
>>>>altogether and made the main site screen reader
friendly.
>>>>Just my two pence worth.

>>>>Cheers,
>>>>Sandra.

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>> __________ NOD32 1.1497 (20060419) Information __________

>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> http://www.eset.com


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