Ray and all,This product makes me very nervous as I look at our talking freeview box made somewhat redundent with it's manufacturer Netgem not supporting the product anymore.
Thus we've got a shed load of "Unknown" channels being spoken when cycling through the stations....
Dj Paddy Tell me and I will hear, show me and I will see, involve me and I will understand. Chinese Proverb----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Orion Webbox review - clarification
Jackie, Paul, and everyone, it does seem very sad that this web box is getting mixed up with vol sector politics and agendas. It's not as though I cannot see the attraction of this device for RNIB and TNAUK in terms of speeding up and cheapening distribution of material and news making it available in a more immediate fashion. At present though a considerable cost falls on the consumer and quite probably a lot of hassle too regarding possible changed URLS and sending the thing back for alterations to the menus to be made. To have such a crippled unit so dependent on being tied to the mother organisations apron strings seems perverse to me. Is it that a new income stream (sic) is being sought as well as benefits to distribution of audio news and information? So many blind people could obviously update these units themselves that this does seem to be a rather obvious ploy to stop us doing it for ourselves, instead having to rely on a not always very competent organisation to do it for us. Need I cite the example of the mess the talking book library has got itself into over the last six months and more? I believe TNAUK has its own problems too according to one user of their services I know. All of this said, I'm willing to listen to arguments supporting why we're being lumbered, seemingly, with this way of doing things. From Ray I can be contacted off-list at: mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- Paul Leake Subject: [access-uk] Re: Orion Webbox review - clarification my sense is that if this product is going to be a runner, users will need to be able to select internet sstations themselves. after all such products should be about promoting independence not dependency on what an organisation thinks the blind might wish to use! It seems to me that potoentially this product might superficially appeal to people who feel unable to cope with complex computer equipment but they should still be afforded the same opportunities as a fully sighted person buying an internet radio particularly given the price of this unit! Cheers Paul paul.leake@xxxxxxxxxxxx ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamie Cuthbertson" <jamie.cuthbertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Orion Webbox review - clarificationJackie, Many thanks for the update and I quite agree about the politics!!(smile)I just wanted everyone on the list to be clear about the currentline RNIBis taking and for there to be no confusion or misunderstanding aboutthis.Hopefully this has now been done. I guess that you don't really want paid in peanuts anyway!!? (Smile) All the best for now, Jamie -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] OnBehalfOf Jackie Cairns Sent: 28 March 2008 17:49 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Orion Webbox review - clarification Hi Jamie Thanks for clarifying RNIB's position, both privately and on thislist.I would add that when I asked SoundTalking if I could write a reviewofthe Orion Web Box, they agreed on the condition that I sought permissionfromTed Davis before any such article could be published. So, having written the review this week, I indeed sent it to Ted forhisapproval. He "specifically" asked me not to send it to RNIB for publication at this stage, which I haven't, and that I could distribute it amonglists, which I have done. So, as far as I personally am concerned, I tried out the Orion WebBox tosolve my own curiosity to see if it was the path I wanted to take,and towrite a fair and balanced review to let others know of its existenceandfeatures. Ted gave me all the information regarding the participants involved,so ifthis is incorrect, then he must be responsible for that as hesanctionedthe review after it was written. Personally, I think everyone wants their heads banging together overthis.It's a bloody tool for the end user, and why politics have to comeintoplay I honestly don't know and don't care. I wouldn't buy it anyway, andIhaven't been paid so much as a peanut for writing the review. I diditbecause I wanted to. (smiles.) Thanks Jamie for clarifying. I have sent a good number of reviews privately, so hope it has proved useful, which was always myintention.Jackie Email: cairnsplace@xxxxxxx Skype Name: Cairnsplace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamie Cuthbertson" <jamie.cuthbertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 5:20 PM Subject: [access-uk] Orion Webbox review - clarificationHi list, I read Jackie's review of the Orion Webbox with interest and wouldliketo clarify a little of the detail. First a bit of background toexplain mylink with the Orion Webbox. I apologise in advance for the lengthofthis posting. Last year I was asked to run a trial of the Orion Webbox on RNIB'sbehalfand this started around April/May. We trialled the unit witharound 90participants, living mainly in the Glasgow and Gloucestershireareas. Athorough evaluation of the system was conducted in October. The evaluation report was finished earlier this year. For the purposes of the trial, RNIB made available a selection of internet radio stations, talking books, magazines and newspapers andpodcasts, oneach of the playlists. This playlist is different from, thoughsimilarto, that offered by Sound Talking. Although the official trial period is over, some of our trialistsstillhave their webboxes and can access the playlist that was provided. As yet, however, there has been no decision taken about how longthiswill be the case. For clarification, in Jackie's article, she says "In addition, bothRNIBand Calibre have included talking books which they say they will updateatregular intervals." I cannot comment on behalf of Calibre, however, I think it is onlyfairto point out that the RNIB Talking Books that are currently availableon theSound Talking playlist are only sample titles that were madeavailable tothe Sound Talking trialists, who participated in a similar trial attheend of 2007 and into early 2008. There is no plan at present tochange,amend or add to this list of books - they are only samples to show whatcan bedone. The general feedback from our trialists was that this kind oftechnologyprovides very exciting possibilities, but there is a great deal of discussion still to be had around issues such as content, howmultipleorganisations can participate, standards, features, user control of playlists and so on. In the next few weeks there are due to bemeetingsto take forward this discussion and these will bring together many oftheorganisations which currently have a vested interested in thesubject.Having completed the evaluation process reasonably recently, it is entirely right and proper that all organisations that wish to investigate afutureservice of this type, take an appropriate amount of time tothoroughlyinvestigate all the issues in order to ensure that, if a service isto beestablished, that it meets all the needs of the end users. This istheapproach that RNIB is currently taking and I'm sure that you willagreethat this is sensible. I hope this clarifies the existing situation. If anyone wishes tobesenta copy of the RNIB trial evaluation of the Orion Webbox, please feelfreeto contact me at my RNIB email address: Jamie.cuthbertson@xxxxxxxxxxx Regards, Jamie mentions that both RNIB and Calibre content is available and that-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] OnBehalfOf Jackie Cairns Sent: 27 March 2008 17:33 To: Access UK Mailing List Subject: [access-uk] Solutions In A Box? - Orion Web Box InternetRadioReview Due to popular demand, I have been asked to post the below reviewto thelist. Draw your own conclusions from its contents, and I'm happytoanswer any questions that I can. Jackie SOLUTIONS IN A BOX? THE ORION WEB BOX INTERNET RADIO JACKIE CAIRNS There are now thousands of radio stations worldwide that one maytuneinto over the Internet. And this way of accessing radio has become sopopularthat several manufacturers such as Intempo and Roberts have broughtoutstand-alone devices that allow you to listen to your favouriteprogrammeswithout using a PC. But while Internet radio, as it is known, is commercially availableandaffordable, it isn't accessible for those with little or no sight.Withso much material to choose from, operating an Internet radio if youdon'thave enough vision to read the display is a daunting prospect. Butthanks tothe collaboration of Dutch company Solutions Radio, and UK charity SoundTalking - which is the commercial outlet of the popular Talking Newspaper Association of the United Kingdom (TNAUK) - an Internet radio withspeechfeedback is now available. This piece reviews a trial Orion Web Box, supplied by SoundTalking,andoutlines what users may expect from the service in the comingmonths.CONTROLS AND FEATURES The Orion Web Box is a sturdy rectangular-shaped device incontrastingblack and grey colours. It is slightly sloped so that the back is higherthanthe front, with a speaker, all its controls, and small displaypositioned onthe top. When the Web Box is facing you, the speaker grill occupies theportiontowards the back of the machine, with small display, five buttonsandrotary volume control/mute/pause/bookmark facility nearer to the front.Amains outlet, RJ45 ethernet connection, two phono sockets and phoneconnectorsare at the rear of the unit. The five round buttons are arranged in a sighted L-shape further tothefront of the unit. The first one is up, below which is down, belowwhichis the OK or Accept button. To the right of the OK is Back, followedbyOn/Off. The rotary volume/mute/pause/bookmark control is in themiddleof the L-shape, and is very distinctive to feel and turn. To mute orpausewhat you are listening to, simply press down the rotary control,andpress again to continue. The control, when pressed down and held, alsoacts asa bookmark facility. The small display comprises black text on a yellow background. Butas atotally blind person, I could not say how easy this would be to useforthose with limited sight. In the middle of the front edge of the Web Box is a small roundsensorwhich detects the accompanying remote control. This small hand-heldcontrolallows the same functionality as the Web Box itself. Before turning on the Web Box, it needs to be mains powered andconnectedto the accompanying ethernet cable to provide access to the Internet.Oncethis is done, press the bottom right button to switch on thedevice. Afew short beeps indicates that the Web Box has power, and is proceededby thefollowing: "Hello and welcome to SoundTalking Internet radio.Press theOK button when you hear the subject of your choice. You can choosefrom:Announcements; Bookmark Facility; National Radio Stations; LocalRadioStations; Local Talking Newspapers; National Talking Newspapers and Magazines; SoundTalking Publications; Soundings Magazine; InfoSound;Music for Blind; Calibre Books; RNIB Talking Books; Podcasts; Useful Information on the Orion Web Box." You may intercept this list of choices atanypoint by pressing the OK button to enter a sub-menu with further choices. Alternatively, if you know the choices off by heart, you canquickly goup and down to find the item you want more rapidly using the buttons described above. At the end of the list read out, the voice continues with:"Asyou have made no choice, this menu will be repeated." As you have now discovered, the Orion Web Box is more than just an Internet radio. It has been designed to accept the entire range of TNAUK publications which is an annual subscription service. In addition,bothRNIB and Calibre have included talking books which they say theywillupdate at regular intervals. These publications may be bookmarked, with a current limit of up to 10. As an avid radio listener, and most anxious to access this aspectof theOrion Web Box, I discovered that the trial unit contains only 25nationaland 14 local stations which may be increased on request toSoundTalking.These stations are all easily accessed by choosing either thenational orlocal radio stations list from the main menu, and then selectingthepreferred station from the sub-menu. Again, the list will berepeated ifyou make no selection, and just pressing the OK button allows youto makeyour choice. A series of beeps ensues while you wait for yourselectedradio station to commence. The speech menus are clear and straightforward to follow. No prior computer knowledge is required to operate the Web Box, apart from the factyoumust have an Internet connection so that the radio can find thenecessaryinformation. For those who prefer to use Wi-Fi, or wireless connectivity, amodel ofthe Web Box supporting this capability is available for an extracharge.I was disappointed to discover that the Orion Web Box is only amonoradio, both from its external speaker and through headphone listening. A supplied lead with two phono jacks at one end can be connected to the rearof theWeb Box, with a 3.5MM socket at the other that allows attachment toyour ownheadphones. It looks like a stereo device because of its two phono sockets, but it is, in fact, mono. The Orion Web Box is available in two flavours from SoundTalking.Thestandard ethernet version costs £279, and the wireless option £315.Thisis in stark contrast to commercially available Internet radios whichcostfrom £99 to £200. The commercial alternatives also supportapproximately6,000 stations worldwide, and update automatically when new channels areadded.You can choose from country or genre when browsing these radios,and someeven offer the facility to allow you to listen to your own music collections from your PC. But, as already stated, such an appetising prospect is impossiblewithoutsufficient sight. At present, therefore, we are faced with alimitedoption in the form of the Orion Web Box. It is limited because allstationsneed to be added by SoundTalking. All stations are also tagged, whichmeansthat they have to be voice labelled so that the user may identify them.Whena station therefore goes out of date, or changes its name, theoriginalspeech label, or tag, doesn't automatically update, and needs to bealteredmanually. This is costly for the suppliers to upkeep, and isdependentupon regular maintenance. Both partners in this project have assured me that anyone wishingto havea radio station of their choice added to the Orion Web Box can do sobycontacting SoundTalking. They also insist the unit will be updated regularly with a variety of books and information from othersources.And they have stated that they will support anyone who purchases anOrion WebBox regardless of whether or not they take out a Talking Newspapers subscription. CONCLUSIONS This is a compact device with a lot of practicability for those whoarenot particularly computer literate, yet want to listen to a variety ofradiostations, or TNAUK/RNIB/Calibre publications in one solution. Itis easyto use, and contains a straightforward set of print and audioinstructions.There is clearly enormous potential for the unit to be developedfurther,particularly the radio aspect. I do have concerns, however, about long term support for the WebBox.While trials and user feedback have been positive, I cannot helpwondering whatsort of shelf life such a device will have if it needs constantspeechtagging and manual maintenance to ensure everything is keptup-to-date.For further information, contact SoundTalking on 01435 862737, sendanEmail to info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, or visit http://www.soundtalking.co.uk/internet-radio-service.html. Glasgow - Proud Host City of the 2014 Commonwealth Games----------------------------------------------------------------------------Disclaimer: This message is intended only for use of the addressee. If thismessagewas sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this message. Glasgow City Council cannot accept responsibility for viruses, sopleasescan attachments. 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