[access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
- From: "Dave Taylor" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:30:24 +0100
Hi
All Dolphin products still install and run SAM (Synthersiser Access Manager)
which seems to cause problems with other speech. They also have very
different keyboard usage and you would only have available the functions of
whichever you ran second. I would really strongly advise against combining
products in this way. I'm afraid you need to either stick to Dolphin, or
abandon them entirely and go speech only and use NVDA, and/or a free
magnifier.
Cheers
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
chris hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:11 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
Suppose Eleanor that you could use NVDA, turn the speech off on
SuperNova and just rely on the magnification. I can't see it causing
major problems whatsoever, as NVDA doesn't install any drivers.
Unfortunately I have used up my student allowance, so can't upgrade to
JAWS pro with that. Sorry my friend.
Chris Hallsworth
E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: chrishallsworth7266
Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
On 11/05/2010 22:06, Eleanor Burke wrote:
> That was in my opinion Chris, brilliant contribution. I had noted
> before that you were using NVDA and spoke so highly of it. I would be
> really interested in trying it out if there was a screen magnification
> that worked with it. I am surprised that you are unable to upgrade to
> Jaws Pro with the student allowance for equipment or perhaps you have
> used up your allowance. I am not wishing to enter into your personal
> situation, only am aware of a Disabled Student Allowance for equipment.
> I have been very disappointed that I cannot run Jaws and Supernova, on
> the one computer, no, I donot mean at once but only one wins out sadly
> which means that I have now chosen to go back to Supernova rather than
> Jaws and Magic. I have never given Window Eyes a go and again would be
> interested but have got so used to replying on magnification too, really
> want something that is as powerful as Supernova magnification to try
> alongside another speech screen reader.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth"
> <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:05 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
>
>
>> Wow, what an interesting thread this is turning out to be Barry.
>> Although I have got a JAWS license, I have only authorized it on my
>> Netbook running Windows 7 Starter. I used to have a license on my
>> laptop, which was running Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit, but have
>> decided, thanks to my university, to upgrade to Professional, but not
>> 64 bit. I decided to go back to 32 bit, only because some of my
>> favourite applications, like Winamp, work better on this platform. The
>> reason I thank university is because I got a rare offer; a free
>> product key for Windows 7 Professional. I'm absolutely loving this
>> edition of Windows 7. Features like Windows XP Mode and hosting Remote
>> Desktop sessions grabbed it for me. As I hope to qualify as a
>> professional technician during the summer holidays I felt this edition
>> was more appropriate for me. Anyway, back to my screen readers. I am
>> only authorized for JAWS Standard, and right now cannot afford to
>> upgrade to JAWS Professional. That's no big deal for me. Over time I
>> have learnt to acquaint with the free screen reader NVDA and a demo
>> version of Window-Eyes, which I only use for testing purposes. As for
>> JAWS, I did install JAWS 11 as a 40 minute demo, but as I loved NVDA
>> and like Window-Eyes I decided to completely throw away JAWS and only
>> use JAWS on my netbook. I use NVDA full time right now, and, despite
>> it's free it's very stable, more so than JAWS. I will, however, still
>> use JAWS, but only to log into somebody's machine through JAWS Tandem
>> or use applications like Microsoft Access to which NVDA support hasn't
>> been, and probably never will be, implemented. This I sure understand,
>> but so long as I can get the work done with NVDA, like browsing the
>> web, manage my mail, listen to and manage my media, I'm happy.
>> Please ensure that I am in no way bashing the product. These are just
>> my own personal experiences and right now it's all going well with few
>> problems. In the future I may buy Window-Eyes through their lease to
>> own program, but am not sure as of this time. The way things are going
>> with NVDA to me will possibly replace the commercial offerings for
>> individual consumers like myself. So might just stick with NVDA and
>> only NVDA, and only use JAWS for the above.
>> Have a good day.
>>
>>
>> Chris Hallsworth
>> E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Skype: chrishallsworth7266
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
>>
>> On 11/05/2010 12:16, Barry Toner wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I started writing this late last night and ran out of steam. I posted
>>> it to
>>> the GWMICRO-INFO list under the thread of I've Something To Say.
>>>
>>> It's not the best piece I've ever written but I wanted to share my
>>> experiences with you all as a long-term JAWS user.
>>>
>>> Messege Starts
>>>
>>> " I can also chime in on this thread with a personal tale.
>>>
>>> I have been using Window Eyes on and off for around 6 years.
>>>
>>> I lost my sight in an accident when I was18 years old. I frustrated
>>> myself
>>> with Hal for about 2 years and then I found JAWS. Whilst it did not
>>> replace
>>> being able to use Windows with sight it was a breath of fresh air
>>> compared
>>> to Hal 4.2. Especially when it came to surfing the Internet. This would
>>> have been JAWS 3.7 I started with.
>>>
>>> I've watched the decline of JAWS over the years in terms of problems not
>>> being fixed, new ones being introduced and generally allot of half-baked
>>> product development going through out onto the market. Not to mention
>>> as I
>>> see them very fluffy plug ins and the nightmare that has always
>>> existed JAWS
>>> licensing.
>>>
>>> Despite these failings I was not prepared to move outside of my comfort
>>> zone. Even at the time when my peers where doing so and I would have
>>> most
>>> benefited from their support and vice versa.
>>>
>>> In saying this I completed two Computer Science Degrees using JAWS.
>>> Though
>>> having learnt what I have in the past weeks things just as a fact
>>> would have
>>> been allot easier with Window Eyes. What's that old saying though? About
>>> heinsight being twenty twenty.
>>>
>>> Just over three weeks back I decided I wanted to learn to use Window
>>> Eyes.
>>> I didn’t' say too much to friends who would only think that we'd been
>>> there
>>> before. When they tried to get me to see the light, so to speak.
>>>
>>> I sat down and thought how best to approach Window Eyes this time.
>>> Something that would be different from previous half-hearted attempts to
>>> give the product a fair go.
>>>
>>> So, I decided I would use Window Eyes and no other screen reader for
>>> 1 full
>>> week. No matter what task I needed to do on the computer. I made a
>>> commitment despite my tasks priority to use Window Eyes. I was
>>> determined
>>> to learn how to do it with Window Eyes.
>>>
>>> This was allot harder than it may sound. Especially as I'm really not
>>> that
>>> much of a committed person when it comes to Window Eyes. Or rather I
>>> wasn't.
>>>
>>> So I unloaded JAWS and installed Win Eyes v7.11 onto my Windows 7 32Bit
>>> Desktop.
>>>
>>> I really needed to make this a genuine attempt. I decided to make it a
>>> social experiment instead of a hardcore, I'm going to do this and if
>>> I go
>>> back to JAWS I've failed. So I announced on my twitter and Face Book
>>> feeds
>>> what I was going to do. I then sent updates several times a day
>>> including
>>> @gwmicro in the thread of the good, bad and ugly.
>>>
>>>
>>> Let me tell you the language I through at the computer for the first
>>> three
>>> days was disgraceful! But when I learned how to use the Mouse Keys,
>>> started
>>> to read sections of the excellently layed out manual, joined this
>>> list and
>>> discovered Script Central I started to get a bit excited.
>>>
>>> One of my main frustrations was the amount of times v7.11 would do odd
>>> things. By this I mean it would clip words in Outlook 2K7. Scripts would
>>> crash, Window Eyes would crash if set to load upon log-in. I discovered
>>> that Window Eyes wasn't as infallible as the fan boys and girls made
>>> it out
>>> to be. Oh yes and I got a healthy taster that no doubt End_users I've
>>> supported as a Systems Engingeer have gotten from me a time or too. That
>>> of, "uh that's weird" "It doesnt' do it on my machine like that". This
>>> maybe true but it's not a helpful response!
>>>
>>> So for me it's not been an experience of "The most stable Screen
>>> Reader".
>>> JAWS for me still holds that trophy on my system. Well, it would if
>>> it was
>>> still installed.
>>>
>>> It's been over three weeks and I've not went back despite user error
>>> problems and bugs with Window Eyes.
>>>
>>> Now, it is fair to say that a new user of a product will often make
>>> mistakes
>>> through just not knowing. I'm not exceempt from this. However, there's
>>> allot going on in a person learning a new thing. Whither that is a
>>> computer
>>> program, folding lawndry etc.
>>>
>>> So why might you ask despite the problems I had and in some cases
>>> like the
>>> clipping words didn’t' I just do the easy thing and switch back? Simple,
>>> I'd decided I'd rather put up with some problems that can either be
>>> worked
>>> round or ignored until they are either fixed or I'm told of something
>>> I'm
>>> not doing to get Window Eyes to do what I want. In doing so I get the
>>> wonderful functionality and fresh approach Window Eyes has given to my
>>> computing. This compared to the stale product that did, serve me well
>>> for a
>>> time but has frankly become a bit of a farse in comparison. I.E. JAWS.
>>>
>>> I used to believe that JAWS and Window Eyes both had their place. I
>>> believed this kept me nutral and made me unlike The Zellots, (as I
>>> saw them
>>> at the time), who sat in each camp throwing muck back and forth.
>>>
>>> I find myself looking on at other people in my life who are using
>>> JAWS and
>>> struggling and want to cry out to them. Look, you dont' need to carry on
>>> with those bad habits you learned with JAWS. Tabbing all over the screen
>>> and not using keystrokes in say,and Installer Wizard of alt n for Next.
>>>
>>> It's incredible the amount of JAWS users who are not aware of how to
>>> use the
>>> JAWS Cursor. that's a real bug bear of mine now having used Window Eyes
>>> mouse Keys. the fact you need to completely switch to a different
>>> mode then
>>> back to the PC Cursor mode. no wonder people get confused!
>>>
>>> I could detail my own feelings on a lengthy list of JAWS short
>>> comings not
>>> to mention the iresponsable way Freedom Scientific treat customers. I'd
>>> only be preaching to the crowd and end up falling into the camp of
>>> "My ones
>>> bigger than yours".
>>>
>>> I'd like to think i can lead by example to people I know that use
>>> JAWS and I
>>> see struggling with the mindset it forces on people of the old and
>>> comfortable. By letting them see my completley fresh approach and no
>>> longer
>>> fear of trying something new just for fun. Sadly though I'm a geek and I
>>> believe most of my friends will discount what I'm doing as down to that.
>>> rather than, "I could be having that much fun and productivity as well".
>>>
>>> Trailing off a bit as I need to get out before the rain starts here!"
>>>
>>> Barry Toner
>>>
>>>
>>> BCS Belfast Branch
>>> YPG Representative& Disability Group
>>>
>>> http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=nav.10444
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Contact me @
>>>
>>> Professional: barry.toner@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> Personal Email: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>> MSN/Live: djpaddy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> AIM/FB: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> TWITTER: dj_paddy
>>>
>>> Skype: djpaddy
>>>
>>> Mobile: (UK) +44 (0) 7921 611 253
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>> signature
>>> database 5104 (20100511) __________
>>>
>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
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