Perhaps people need to be clear in the difference between support and training?
If you purchase a product from a company, say for example Sight and Sound, then you expect a certain level of customer support. Unless however you purchase a related training package if it is available, you can not expect them to actually provide training on the product purchased.
I only state this because Eleanor, says Sight and Sound have not trained her. Eleanor, do you mean support? Or have you paid for training they have failed to deliver?
I don't know, nor do I want to know, the ins and outs of what is going on, but it's unfair to criticise a company for not training you when what you are actually talking about is customer support.
If you buy a telly from Currys, do you expect them to train you in how to use that telly? No, I certainly would not. However, I would expect them to support me if there was a problem with said telly.
Just my opinions for what they are worth. Find me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/barkingbabs Barbara Wilson M: 07917710779 T: 02887784046 E: barkingbabs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx IM: creativeeyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Skype: creativeeyes----- Original Message ----- From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" <ibrahim_gucukoglu@xxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 5:12 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws Dongle
Hi Eleanor.This has gone on long enough. All I'm saying is that you should address problems to the individuals concerned, that you should stop writing spurious and inflammatory emails and that you should give credit where its due. I don't know nor particularly care how much support Sight and Sound have given you, but I very much doubt that they have been dismissive of you, nor do I believe they would have treated you with any disrespect. Of course, different people have different expectations and what I might consider as adequate won't necessarily tally with what you may expect.All the best, Ibrahim.----- Original Message ----- From: "Eleanor Burke" <eleanorburke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 5:01 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws DongleIbrahim have Sight and Sound informed you of the technical suppport given to me? Have sight and sound suggested that they have spent time training me? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" <ibrahim_gucukoglu@xxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 4:56 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws DongleHi Eleanor.Of course Sight and Sound make money on jaws, I never suggested they didn't. What I'm saying however is that they appear to have gone far beyond what they would normally consider adequate for most users in their support provision for you. Take me as an example. I might phone them up with a problem and they'll spend some time trying to diagnose the problem, lets say 10 or 20 minutes. If the problem can't be diagnosed or requires further examination, they might tandem in to my machine and have a poke about, to see how the land lies and to determine whether the problem can be fixed. Now depending on the problem and its complexity, they might be able to fix it there and then or perhaps not, but either way, a tandem session may last up to an hour especially if they need to show me how to accomplish something. That's what I expect from my jaws dealer, no more, no less. That's providing technical support. If on the other hand I need one on one training or I need something more than basic support provision, I would probably be told to sling my hook unless I was prepared to pay for the time and resources that this provision would require.All the best, Ibrahim.----- Original Message ----- From: "Eleanor Burke" <eleanorburke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 4:48 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws DongleThanks for the character reference and acadamic ability reference Ibrahim - a true gentleman as you have demonstrated here. Are you suggesting that Sight and Sound received no payment for Jaws 10? have the company informed you of this? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" <ibrahim_gucukoglu@xxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 4:35 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws DongleHi Eleanor.OK, five emails in which you moan and gripe, it makes no sodding difference whether your having a go at individuals or not, the point is you just keep moaning. Also, if your having a problem with jaws ILM licensing, surely the place to go is Freedom Scientific directly? Doubtless you can get their phone number from the website. Sight and Sound are a business not a flaming charity, they've no obligation to provide you with hours of support especially when you haven't paid for it. Most companies wouldn't even go the extra mile for you especially if you rant and rave in the way you do. Your pissing me off, doubtless others as well. As for not meeting you, I've spoken to you on a couple of occasions and found you slow to latch on to an idea or carry out the simplest instruction, so your no miss clever clogs either. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eleanor Burke" <eleanorburke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 4:26 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws DongleIbrahim we have never met, that for a start so you have not 'seen' me! I would be obliged if you would forward the 5 e-mails as I have absolutely not put 5 e-mails in which I said anything about Jackie though I will admit to one, my last re the Braille display and cancellation of a demonstration.I think that if technical support is available to me from Sight and Sound where Jaws was purchased from then might I not expect assistance to install Jaws on my Netbook? I will gladly send you and others the error message within the next 30-45 minutes so that I can get the error exactly for you.Eleanor----- Original Message ----- From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" <ibrahim_gucukoglu@xxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 4:17 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws DongleHi Eleanor.Could you tell us exactly what your problem is? I've just deleted 5 emails from you which are totally nothing but wine and gripes against Jackie, Len and James. This is not a forum for you to vent your anger, frustration or feelings out on, its a discussion forum where like minded individuals come to discuss technology, access implications and where people assist each other. OK, sometimes debates get a little out of hand, but out of all the people I've ever come across, you have to be one of the worst and persistent moaners I've ever seen. Kindly tell us what exactly your having trouble with, then someone might dame to help you.All the best, Ibrahim.----- Original Message ----- From: "Eleanor Burke" <eleanorburke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:52 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws DongleAre you seriously suggesting that every person purchasing Jaws as a known screen reader checks out their system prior to purchase? I would like to see the small print from FS stating this as a requirement then at least I can go back to the education authority that purchased Jaws 10 for me and get them to have my system checked out for compatability. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hussein Patwa " <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:48 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws DongleHi Eleanor,It's always advisable to check compatibility with any application beforepurchase or installation. This is particular important for accesstechnology, particularly if the technology is planned for use with a particular application. It would be unfortunate if someone paid good money for a product, only to find it didn't work with their chosen application dueto a lack of research beforehand.Also, I'm sure there are some notable changes between Jaws 9 and 10. As software advances, it's not inconceivable that the way it operates or interacts with the computer system, not to mention its dependencies andsystem requirements may change. _______________________________________ Have a pleasant day, Kind Regards and Best Wishes, Hussein. Hussein Patwa Tel: 0789 47 595 62 (UK) Tel: +44 (0)122 4433 954 (SIP) Skype: patwaspotterfan2 GoogleTalk: thewanderingwriter Web: www.patwanet.co.uk My Blog: http://patwaspotterfan.livejournal.comFind me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=510013486Please note: For security reasons calls from witheld numbers may not be connected. 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Save paper bydeleting sections of the message which are not relevant.-----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eleanor Burke Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:43 PM To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws DongleWell Chris what was it you were told, 10 days? to wait, mine was alwayscoming too! At least it has come now but paying high prices for softwareand then having to wait so long. I never realized for instance that Iwould need to check compatability of all my software on my computer and netbookprior to purchasing Jaws, that is a new one on me, it clashing. IfJaws 9does not clash and can install then why can't Jaws 10 install withoutclashing? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Hallsworth" <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws Dongle> No still haven't got it. But I got a plan. When and if I do get > this > netbook I will authorize with my 1 activation. Then if it goes > down Iwill > ring them up and escalate the issue. > > Chris Hallsworth > e-mail: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx > Skype: chrishallsworth7266 > > I am also on Facebook. > > On 21/12/2009 15:15, Eleanor Burke wrote:>> I can recall 'someone' posting to this list about having to >> wait for >> their Jaws dongle. You never did tell us if you finally got >> it. 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