Well MalMel, and everyone contributing to this thread, I do feel that in this instance at least, its the developers of the Itunes software who should be incorporating our needs within their programming techniques. Although someone mor knowledgeable than I may step in and tell me where I'm wrong, I do think it is more than possible to include our needs as screen reader users into an aesthetically pleasing interface. I do not see where the state, or larger units of organisation such as the EU, should step in and simply pick up the tab here for this thoughtless, and needless shortcoming. Where Governments do have a role is, maybe, in the partial subsidy of access tech itself - standard computers - to put people, irrespective of income, in a position to acquire the necessary access bridge, be it software or hardware, to make access possible at all. This should be done in such a way as to maximise choice and meet the needs of the user, without any undue bias towards particular products, even if they are often touted as the 'industry leader' or whatever. Governments and international organisations should have a role in obliging software vendors and the like to incorporate our needs into their design process too. I think too that access tech should more and more be tailored to the individuals needs and preferences, rather than being determined by the needs of particular situations, such as work, or education. IT technology is increasingly forcing itself into everyday life, so a statutary framework to ensure access to personal devices, and ATMs, to mention but two areas, should be accessable in their design from the outset. Coming back to Itunes and Ipods, for this is what the thread has been about hitherto, one could argue that these aren't 'essentials' or at least, that there are good alternatives. Some of the alternatives are just as fashion concious as Apple, but haven't earned the uncritical acclaim that Apple has. Ray Personal emails: Email me at mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mel Spooner" <mel.spooner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 1:27 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Itunes: Why do we keep on paying and paying? Hi Billy, Yes I realise this, but is it really the software developers that should meet the cost of this? I would argue that it is the government. Mel Mel Spooner edIT Help Desk Nottinghamshire County Council Tel 0115 854 6116 Email mel.spooner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of TrueBlue & Proud Sent: 15 July 2005 13:11 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Itunes: Why do we keep on paying and paying? Mel, 30 pounds is quite a lot of money to someone living on a government fixed income, and probably with a wife and family as well. Billy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mel Spooner" <mel.spooner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 10:29 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Itunes: Why do we keep on paying and paying? But £30 isn't a great deal to ask compared to other programs out there. After all, it isn't Brian Hartgen's fault that Itunes isn't accessible with screen readers and why should he give his time and expertise for free? We all have to make a living! Mel Mel Spooner edIT Help Desk Nottinghamshire County Council Tel 0115 854 6116 Email mel.spooner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of TrueBlue & Proud Sent: 15 July 2005 08:52 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Itunes: Why do we keep on paying and paying? Peter, totally agree with all you say, and before you all jump on us. As Visually Impaired people we are not looking for something for nothing. We are willing to pay for anything we get, but some of the guys that are creating these scripts are going way over the top, when it comes to pricing. For an instance, take a look at the Caketalking scripts for Sonar. Okay, there's a tutorial thrown in with them, but I think the cost of the Caketalking scripts is a bit too much. Billy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Logue" <peterlogue@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 4:50 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Itunes: Why do we keep on paying and paying? Isn't £30 a lot of money for a script? That's the equivalent of a hardcover novel which has taken the author the best part of 2 years to complete. I'm not saying a guy should not make a quid or two on a script, but £30 per script was hardly a labour of love. 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