Hi Eleanor.What did George Bell say about one liners? If you have something like that to say, please keep it off list and email to the person concerned privately. I admit that I might have been guilty of a couple of one liners, but you continue to do this even when George has specifically requested otherwise. I'm not acting as moderator, but I kindly request that you stop this as it clogs up mailboxes and gets on people's nerves.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Eleanor Burke" <eleanorburke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: How good is the KNFB reader
Good points there Steve. Eleanor----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:19 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: How good is the KNFB readerHi Barbara,Just to add what you said, if you reduce the price too much, and hence thewages of the lead programmer, he'll go somewhere else. These people who produce specialist software, are brilliant programmers. I have had theprivilege of watching Marcus Groeber who writes Talks at work and being withhim while he was making tweaks to it, and it was fascinating to watch.What I am saying here, is that if these brilliant programmers don't get paidthe going rate, they'll simply find a mainstream programming job. So now, because the market for this stuff is potentially quite small, andthey have to recoup their R and D costs, that is why the price of this stuff is so high. Added to that, particularly in the US, most blind tech if I cancall it that, is purchased by state or government agencies unlike here. This is also true of parts of Europe. So while it sells at that price, I am afraid it is unlikely to reduce.I am not endorsing high prices, on the contrary, Talks is a fine example of access tech that does so much at a reasonable price, but I am saying why Ibelieve the prices are so high. All the best Steve -----Original Message-----From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf OfBarbara Wilson Sent: Wednesday 4 February 2009 08:57 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: How good is the KNFB reader My thoughts Eleanor that while being blind does cost, we do get benefits such as DLA to assist with those costs. On top of this some blind peoplestill expect things for free or at a non-profit cost. And the fact that we are blind is not the responsibility of the software/hardware developers, so we can't expect them to create products and not make money from them. Whilethe world can be an unfair place, that's life I am afraid. BarbaraGet listed, network or find a business at an online directory of businessesowned and run by disabled people and associated support and advisory organisations: www.barkingbabs.co.uk----- Original Message ----- From: "Eleanor Burke" <eleanorburke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 8:52 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: How good is the KNFB readerMy family do not have to purchase special access equipment to read etc andyet blind people do have to spend out money. Guess we will not put the world to rights here but no harm in airing our views. Eleanor -original message- Subject: [access-uk] Re: How good is the KNFB reader From: "Karl Proud" <karl@xxxxxxxxxxx> Date: 04:02:2009 6:24 am What has the amount of disability benefits got to do with pricing.Surely, if the piece of kit is overpriced no one will buy it and they will drop the price. I don't understand why access technology should be pricedby non profit making standards. I have just upgraded my Jaws and bought an SMA and yes I now need a long lie down in a quiet room, but it's my choice - could have gone elsewhere. You get your stick free - what else do you want? <smile> Karl----- Original Message ----- From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" <ibrahim_gucukoglu@xxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 5:02 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: How good is the KNFB reader Hi James. While I appreciate that it is an everyday practical tool for some, price is certainly one of the biggest issues in access technology. Of course different people have different needs, but access tech needn't be expensive.As I said to you and as others will surely agree, talks, mobile speaks andwayfinder are all invaluable tools to all mobile phone users yet they don'tcost £695 or even close to that. Even if you were to buy a wayfinder and talks or mobile speaks symbian license, the most you would ever pay wouldbe £350, just over half the price of KNFB reader. While I agree that KNFBreader is surely a wonderful tool, I think it is about time that the priceof such tools should be evaluated to take in to consideration the number ofvisually impaired people who can ill afford it. To hammer the point home,I believe code factory do a couple of tools for Symbian phones including a colour detector, bar code scanner and even a daisy player and neither of these cost as much as the KNFB software. Also, £695 is the average monthlytake for someone on disability benefits. Jackie was certainly right whenshe said about access technology pricing being an emotive issue. All the best, Ibrahim.----- Original Message ----- From: "James Scholes" <james@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: "Edward Green" <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:51 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: How good is the KNFB readerHi,While I agree with you all about the ridiculous price of the KNFB Reader, just think how much use you would get out of it? I know people who use itfor all their reading needs, not just when they're out and about. So, Ithink before you go talking about how much it costs, just think, would I use it? If the answer is an outright yes, then the price shouldn't be anissue as it is an invaluable tool to most people. James Scholes http://www.jls-radio.com -----Original Message----- Sent by Edward Green on Tuesday, February 03, 2009 at 10:19 PM Hi, I have to agree with Ibrahim for the unreasonable cost of the KNFB Reader. This is brought home by the fact that Abbyy, the producers of Fine Reader, make a program for Symbian phones that will scan business cards and OCR them for £10. It's a pity that they haven't expanded this to scan larger documents. This would require the makers of KNFB Reader to reassess their pricing policy. Ed -----Original Message-----From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On BehalfOf Peter Beasley Sent: 03 February 2009 13:22 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: How good is the KNFB reader I no that Jackie But there are a lot of us who don't have a job or are retired who have no sighted assistance.----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Cairns" <jackie.cairns@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:59 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: How good is the KNFB reader Hi Peter I don't want to get into that, and it wasn't what Barry originally posted to enquire about. Jackie Cairns Braille Support Adviser Email: Jackie.Cairns@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sight and Sound Technology Welton House North Wing Summerhouse Road Moulton Park Northampton NN3 6WD Telephone: 01604 798024 Fax: 01604 798090 Web: www.sightandsound.co.uk -----Original Message-----From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On BehalfOf Peter Beasley Sent: 03 February 2009 12:52 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: How good is the KNFB reader Pity more of us can't aford it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Cairns" <jackie.cairns@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:40 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: How good is the KNFB reader Hi Barry Wearing my user hat, I think it's a great piece of kit. There are manyoccasions where I just can't be bothered to turn on the PC, or I've just turned it off and discover I need to scan something. The phone is greatfor that, and you can wear headphones for private listening. Like most things, there is a knack to using it, and once you grasp theconcept of holding the phone above your document so that it takes a goodpicture of the text, then it really is very good. For what it's worth, I bought the original K-NFB Reader Classic long before I worked here, and was always interested in the phone version when it came out just before I started working for Sight and Sound, so I'm not advertising, merely giving you an honest user perspective as I see it. Honestly, it's one of my very favourite things. Jackie Cairns Braille Support Adviser Email: Jackie.Cairns@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sight and Sound Technology Welton House North Wing Summerhouse Road Moulton Park Northampton NN3 6WD Telephone: 01604 798024 Fax: 01604 798090 Web: www.sightandsound.co.uk -----Original Message-----From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On BehalfOf Barry Hill Sent: 03 February 2009 11:52 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] How good is the KNFB reader Hi all Although I do get quite a lot of information by email before meetings that I attend, there are the inevitable last minute documents that are handed out. I've read up on the KNFB Reader, but the blurb is by the makers and distributors, those with a vested interest. So, I was wondering what anyone who is actually using it thinks of it's performance. Does it read documents accurately? Is it quick and easy to use? Is it intrusive? Many thanks Barry ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq __________ NOD32 3822 (20090203) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq __________ NOD32 3823 (20090203) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com James Scholes E-mail: james@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx MSN/Windows Live Messenger: jamesscholes@xxxxxxx AIM: JamesScholes000 Skype: james.scholes Website: http://www.jamesscholes.com Blog: http://www.jamesscholes.com/blog Radio station and TeamTalk server: http://www.jls-radio.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/jamesscholes Find me on Facebook! Username: jamesscholes Link to Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1375965156&hiq=jamesscholes Last.FM Profile: http://www.last.fm/user/jamesscholes000 -- Message sent at 10:48:22 PM GMT on Tuesday, February 03, 2009 ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq __________ NOD32 3824 (20090204) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.9 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1260 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq