Interesting again Adrian. I know of Joe Clark, who is another Canadian as I recall. Seems very technically accomplished and knowledgable, although I've picked up on other lists that he can be abrasive. I shall take a look at his article. Again, you are right to point to the complexity of this issue, not least the technical capabilities of access software being used, as well as the site design itself, and of course the experience and technical savvy of the end user regarding their particular access software and knowledge and experience of web browsing generally. In one way and another this has all been brought up here. Many times. Many many times, as Dame Celia Molestrangler said many times.... This aging juvenile isn't going to start another Tesco thread or, 'why don't you learn to use your reader better' type of war. Ray Personal emails: Email me at mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Higginbotham" <adrian.higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx> You're partly right of course Ray in that people are very good at whining and not so good at doing something about it, and it's not just Blind people of course, but consider also that bringing an action under the DDA even with the support of the DRC is quite difficult. Speaking as someone who has done just this all be it not in relation to the Web I have some idea what is involved. I also worry about the amount of statistics floating around about accessibility and the Web. The DRC research sited in the Register article found that 81% of all one thousand websites audited failed to comply with WAI single A guidance. Some how this got translated in to 81% ofall Websites are inaccessible. They aren't of course, neither you nor I, nor anyone else walks away from eight out of every ten websites we visit because we can't find what we're looking for. Similarly in researched published late last year it was claimed that 97% of all public sector websites are inaccessible. Again I would contest this claim. What is or isn't accessible is extremely subjective and depends upon technology, experience, context and lots more besides, it isn't always the Web developer or site owner that is at fault either, it might be that the individual doesn't have access to up to date technology, that they haven't had adequate (if any) training, that they have less experience than others with similar circumstances, or dare one suggest it that their access technology is flawed. There is as ever more than one side to every story, for instance have a look at the following piece by joe clark: http://blog.fawny.org/2005/06/25/atf/articles Adrian Higginbotham Accessibility and inclusion adviser British Educational Communications and Technology Agency - BECTA Tel: Direct dial 024 7679 7333 - Internal extension #2287 ad, Science Park, Coventry, CV4 7JJ -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ray's Home I think you reflect my views Adrian when you say "I do wonder if the journalist who relates this fantasy and I were at the same event." I wasn't at the event at all, but I think its maybe a case of the wish being father to the thought, or something like that. The only 'protest' or dissatisfaction I ever hear from blind people is the sort whingeing and moaning that goes on in pubs. A lot of huffing and puffing, and no action, let alone considered thinking. Its True, certainly, there's a hell of a lot needs to be done, but with the head as well as the Will. I did too post with a bit of tongue in cheek attitude. Ray Personal emails: Email me at mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Higginbotham" <adrian.higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Having been involved in, and at the launch of what this article calls the DRCs own code I do wonder if the journalist who relates this fantasy and I were at the same event. Granted I haven't been privy to the DRC marketing material associated with british standards institute, publicly available specification number 78 (pas78) but the message conveyed by the piece from the Register wasn't at all that being aired on Wednesday last. True Michael Burton did say that the DRC would help any individuals persue cases in relation to Web inaccessibility but it was hardly a rabel rousing call to arms. Nor was it a critique of the Web accessibility Initiative guidelines. Pas78 is not a new web accessibility standard it is simply a guide for managers in how to ensure that the web services they buy are accessible. The basis of the advice being that all existing standards to date have been technical in nature and this has often lead to web developers trying to sell accessibility to clients who have little or no understanding of it and may conclude that it is just the techis trying to find another way to screw money out of them. I'm very disappointed in the register for such an illinformed and potentially damaging piece. 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